The Future Of Rocket Propulsion

Episode Breakdown (Adjusted Timestamps)

0:00 – Introduction

Jeff Dance introduces the episode, its focus on rocket propulsion, and presents the three featured guests.

0:45 – Guest Introductions

Backgrounds of Alexis Harroun (Juno Propulsion), Zach Sander (Stoke Space), and Craig Baerwaldt (Space Happy Hour/Fresh Consulting) are shared by Jeff Dance.

2:54 – Space Culture: Star Wars, Star Trek, or Other?

Guests discuss their science fiction inspirations, ranging from Star Wars and Dune to The Three-Body Problem.

4:30 – Current Challenges in Space Propulsion

Craig outlines historical developments, cost structures, and the role of SpaceX in reigniting innovation in space propulsion.

5:45 – Lowering Barriers and Startup Access

Zach and Alexis discuss the impact of reusable rockets and high-performance engines on lowering entry costs for startups and enabling a broader space economy.

7:12 – Juno Propulsion’s Rotating Detonation Engine (RDE)

Alexis describes rotating detonation engine technology, fuel efficiency, its mechanisms, and various use cases for launch and in-space missions.

10:29 – Stoke Space’s Second Stage Innovations

Zach explains Stoke’s second stage engine architecture, dual-use design for ascent and reentry, and the advantages of metallic heat shield technology.

12:07 – Propulsion Trends and Industry Collaboration

Craig, Zach, and Alexis discuss the state of booster recovery, the emerging “second stage” space race, and the push toward full and rapid rocket reusability.

13:13 – Importance of Rapid Reuse

Panelists emphasize the importance of rapid turnaround for reusable launch systems and its effects on economics, reliability, and flight cadence.

15:20 – The Role of Different Propulsion Solutions

Alexis shares perspectives on chemical, electric, and future nuclear propulsion; the benefits and universality of RDE; and the ongoing need for diversity in propulsion systems.

17:40 – The Commercial, Civil, and Defense Markets

Discussion on how rocket companies balance and address the requirements of commercial, civil (NASA), and national security/defense clients.

20:12 – Operational Readiness for 24-Hour Launch

Zach details Stoke Space’s approach to agile, vertically integrated operations, and the role of automation and software in launching quickly on demand.

22:26 – Vertical vs. Horizontal Integration

Alexis raises the challenge of supply chain maturity in the space industry and suggests that horizontal specialization could one day replace today’s vertical integration.

25:10 – Testing and Iteration

Panelists share why rigorous, iterative testing is central to propulsion innovation, with stories about hardware, hot-fires, failures, and learning cycles at their companies.

29:06 – Testing Architectures and Speed

Zach discusses the benefits of Stoke’s modular engine design for rapid testing and iteration, and Alexis highlights shared backgrounds among propulsion engineers.

32:55 – Space Industry Community and Competition

The group reflects on the uniquely supportive—and competitive—culture within the space industry, with collaboration while competing globally and at the national level.

34:02 – The Critical Importance of Testing

Craig outlines how testing is the true bottleneck in space hardware development and explains how improved data capture and automation are making launches more reliable.

35:50 – Testing as a Source of Learning

Alexis and Zach celebrate how failures during testing often teach more than successes, and explain the art and science of safe rocket engine experiments.

37:04 – RDE and Perceptions of Explosion

Alexis addresses the history and misconceptions around detonation engines, explaining that modern RDEs lean into and control powerful combustion physics.

39:21 – Continuous Testing, Failure Modes, and Margins

Zach describes best practices for discovering and measuring the limits of engines and vehicles—including when it’s valuable to intentionally fail parts to understand boundaries.

40:39 – Architecture, Modularity, and Testing Efficiency

Panelists discuss how modular and multi-engine systems allow for faster and cheaper learning cycles.

43:36 – Projecting the Future: What Would Signal a Golden Age?

Alexis, Zach, and Craig forecast what it will take for space to truly become democratized—the role of in-space manufacturing, rapid launches, and a seamless startup path.

48:09 – How Close Are We to “Amazon for Launch”?

Discussion on the path to airline-style launch availability and the technological, operational, and regulatory steps to reach a vibrant launch-on-demand market.

50:14 – The Role and Limits of AI

Panelists reflect on current applications of AI for space hardware, engineering, software, and simulation—describing areas where it is helping and where domain expertise remains critical.

51:10 – Simulation, Digital Twins, and Real-World Correlation

Zach and Alexis discuss the strengths and gaps between digital models and real test data, and the importance of continuous improvement in simulation fidelity.

1:01:16 – Future Challenges: Talent, Manufacturing, and Infrastructure

The group addresses looming challenges, including talent shortages, manufacturing complexity, launch site constraints, and the need for safer, greener propellants.

1:04:05 – Building a Space-Focused Culture

Panelists share personal mantras, cultural values, and mental approaches to perseverance, stress, and adversity in the space industry.

1:09:00 – Inspiration and Leadership in Space

Panelists share who they look up to in the industry, the importance of mentors, and how the unique community spirit of space fosters both competition and support.

1:13:00 – Closing Remarks

Jeff Dance thanks the guests and summarizes the major insights.

About the Show

“The Future Of” is a podcast by Fresh Consulting, hosted by Jeff Dance, where we discuss and explore the future of various industries, markets, and technology. Join us as we chat with leaders and experts to learn how we can shape the future human experience.