How to Build a Law Practice That Doesn't Depend on Billable Hours ft. Steven J. Shanker, Esq.

In the age of AI, firms built around billable hours need to have an uncomfortable conversation.

In this episode of Between the Briefs by Steno, Adrian Cea and Joe Stephens sit down with Steven J. Shanker, Esq., Partner and Head of Corporate Law at Romano Law, to discuss why he believes AI could accelerate the end of hourly billing and what it takes to build a legal practice around judgment, efficiency, and ongoing client relationships instead.

What You'll Learn:

How Romano Law offers flat-fee alternatives for both discrete legal projects and ongoing counsel relationships
Why alternative fee arrangements can encourage clients to contact their lawyers before problems escalate
How to scope and price legal work without relying exclusively on hourly billing
Why efficient work habits matter even when a firm isn't billing by the hour
Why worker classification depends on the actual working relationship, not merely the contract's label
How direction and control can affect employee-versus-independent-contractor analysis
Why misclassification claims can expose employers to taxes, damages, penalties, and attorney-fee liability
Why Steven supports exploring an intermediate category for independent workers
How Steven mentors junior lawyers through practical experience, efficiency, and courtroom exposure

At the center of the episode lies a big prediction: lawyers who refuse to experiment with alternatives to hourly billing may discover that their clients are perfectly willing to find firms that will.

Highlights:

00:44 Meet Steven Shanker: Corporate Law, Litigation, and Risk Prevention
01:47 How Steven Entered New York's Worker Classification Litigation
02:47 How Workers' Compensation Experience Shaped His Legal Specialty
03:38 What Determines Employee vs. Independent Contractor Status?
04:09 Why Direction and Control Matter More Than Contract Labels
07:14 Should Lawyers Be Doctors or Firefighters for Their Clients?
07:37 How Preventative Outside Counsel Can Reduce Litigation Risk
08:49 Why Employment Lawyers Need to Watch Classification Cases Nationwide
09:58 Does Steven Still Charge Clients by the Hour?
10:11 How Steven Prices Flat-Fee and Outside General Counsel Services
12:23 Is AI Finally Making the Billable Hour Obsolete?
12:50 Why Steven Thinks Clients Will Stop Paying for Manual Contract Reviews
14:08 What Businesses Get Wrong About Independent Contractor Agreements
14:22 Why a Signed Contractor Agreement May Not Protect an Employer
16:09 Does the Gig Economy Need a Third Worker Classification?
16:18 Steven's Case for an Independent Worker Category
17:09 Why Companies Accept Worker Misclassification Risk Despite Legal Advice
17:31 When Business Strategy Overrides a Lawyer's Risk Assessment
18:30 How Do Lawyers Sell Preventative Services Before a Lawsuit?
19:05 Turning Litigation Clients Into Ongoing General Counsel Relationships
21:02 How Should Firms Train Lawyers for Flat-Fee Work?
21:30 Teaching Junior Lawyers Efficiency Without Sacrificing Quality
23:23 When Does a Business Need Outside General Counsel?
23:35 Why Even Small Companies Can Benefit From Ongoing Legal Counsel
25:12 When Should Outside Counsel Give Way to an In-House GC?
25:24 How Interim General Counsel Relationships Work
26:57 What Lawyers Get Wrong About Managing Client Relationships
27:11 Setting Boundaries, Expectations, and Trust With Clients
28:53 What Should Lawyers Say About Client-Generated AI Contracts?
29:17 Why AI Legal Documents Still Need Professional Judgment
30:27 How Steven Balances Legal Practice, Mentorship, and Business Development
30:42 Why Steven Thinks Litigators Should Understand Both Sides
33:44 Is AI Creating a Skills Gap for Young Lawyers?
34:34 Why Courtroom Skills Still Require Real-World Practice
35:58 Steven's Hottest Take on the Legal Industry
36:06 Adapt Your Billing Model or Risk Losing Clients
37:08 Closing Thoughts
38:48 About Steno and Between the Briefs

Quotes:

“I have been and now am on a mission to eliminate the billable hour.”
“I despise the billable hour because amongst other things, it discourages the client from calling their attorney.”
“You can't substitute legal judgment for a computer.”
“The lawyers who are not already doing it now are gonna be left behind.”