Building an Insight-Driven Culture with Leyla Doany

Transcript

Leyla 0:01 The biggest priority if you are building an insights function completely from scratch is that is going to be your secret sauce. Just tell the story. Forget about the data. The sooner you focus on on that instead of the data, you would honestly be surprised at how many more conversations you're invited into and how people start viewing you as a fundamental part of their decision making process.

Stephanie 0:26 Hello, fellow insight seekers. Welcome to the Curiosity Current, a podcast that's all about navigating the exciting world of market research. I'm Stephanie Vance.

Matt 0:37 And I'm Matt Mahan. Join us as we explore the ever shifting landscape of consumer behavior and what it means for brands like yours.

Stephanie 0:44 Each episode will get swept up in the trends and challenges facing researchers today, riding the current of curiosity towards new discoveries and deeper understanding.

Matt 0:54 Along the way, we'll tap into the brains of industry leaders, decode real world data, and explore the tech that's shaping the future of research.

Stephanie 1:02 So whether you're a seasoned pro or just getting your feet wet, we're excited to have you on board.

Matt 1:07 So with that, let's jump right in.

Stephanie 1:11 Today on the Curiosity Current, we are thrilled to welcome Leila Dewani, a consumer insights leader who has leveraged an extensive career on both the brand and supplier side to drive organizational change in her current role, transforming an instinct driven business into an insights driven powerhouse.

Matt 1:28 Leila has led award winning research projects across CPG, toys and games, and most recently at Yola, where she builds their first ever consumer insights function from scratch, uncovering untapped market potential and driving product strategy in the fast growing world of pickleball.

Stephanie 1:44 In this episode, we're going to explore what it takes to embed insights into a company culture, and, of course, why curiosity remains the secret weapon for brands navigating today's dynamic consumer landscape. Leila, welcome to the Curiosity Current.

Leyla 1:59 Thank you so much. Really, really glad to be here. Sort of odd to hear everything listed out. You know, you look back and you think,

Matt 2:06 oh, okay.

Leyla 2:06 I've done

Stephanie 2:07 all those things.

Leyla 2:07 That's that's awesome. But, yeah, really looking forward to diving into some good discussions today.

Stephanie 0:26 Hello, fellow insight seekers. Welcome to the Curiosity Current, a podcast that's all about navigating the exciting world of market research. I'm Stephanie Vance.

Matt 0:37 And I'm Matt Mahan. Join us as we explore the ever shifting landscape of consumer behavior and what it means for brands like yours.

Stephanie 0:44 Each episode will get swept up in the trends and challenges facing researchers today, riding the current of curiosity towards new discoveries and deeper understanding.

Matt 0:54 Along the way, we'll tap into the brains of industry leaders, decode real world data, and explore the tech that's shaping the future of research.

Stephanie 1:02 So whether you're a seasoned pro or just getting your feet wet, we're excited to have you on board.

Matt 1:07 So with that, let's jump right in.

Leyla 1:59 Thank you so much. Really, really glad to be here. Sort of odd to hear everything listed out. You know, you look back and you think,

Matt 2:06 oh, okay.

Leyla 2:06 I've done

Stephanie 2:07 all those things.

Leyla 2:07 That's that's awesome. But, yeah, really looking forward to diving into some good discussions today.

Matt 2:12 We are too. Let's talk about some of those things. So you've worked across both agency and client side roles. That's something that's always interesting to talk about. You started out at Kantar, spent some time at Unilever, went to Hasbro, and now at Yola. What we always like to start here. What sparked your interest in consumer insights? Why market research? How did you end up here? And what has kept you curious over the years? at's something that's always interesting to talk about. You started out at Kantar, spent some time at Unilever, went to Hasbro, and now at Yola. What we always like to start here. What sparked your interest in consumer insights? Why market research? How did you end up here? And what has kept you curious over the years?

Leyla 2:37 So ironically, I actually came into the research and insights world completely by chance. So my bachelor's degree was in English, English literature. So ultimately, I was told publishing and teaching are probably the two areas you are going to go into. I did do a couple of publishing internships long, long time ago now, and I actually very quickly realized this is definitely not for me. At the time, I was working with a graduate kind of recruitment agency. So they landed me this internship in market research. At the time, I had no idea what market research was. It was honestly not really something that was discussed as a viable career option. People would often talk about things like business, marketing, high level, right, but I actually never heard anyone talk about market research and consumer insights specifically. So landed this internship. Honestly, two weeks into it, I had this light bulb moment and I thought, this is such a good career for me because it essentially combines the two parts of my brain which are analytical and very creative as well. Little off the cuff comment here, I have a background in acting. So outside of work, I do a lot of community theater. Right? So that was one of the parts I really liked about market research was being able to combine the analytical sort of data side with the more creative storytelling aspects, leveraging some of the work I had done in acting. Right? So those were the things which made me, two weeks into this, realize, yes, I can definitely kind of see myself staying here. And in terms of what keeps me curious, I would say, first and foremost, I am just a deeply curious person by nature. I think all of us who work in in market research and consumer insights are. Are. Right? We just love asking the question why over and over and over, and we're never really satisfied with the answer that we get. But also, I would say the variety of my work has kept me really interested because, as you mentioned, I have worked in consumer packaged goods at Unilever, toys, games, Hasbro, now sports at YOLA. Every category is so interesting, so different. You have all these kind of new questions that come up, new types of consumers, and new learning definitely keeps me interested and keeps me on my toes, I would say.

Matt 5:02 That's great. It's super interesting. I love the way you spoke to this, like, combination of the two hemispheres of your brain. That's a really interesting concept. I think we hear sometimes talking to other researchers that there is a creative element in this industry. And when you can tap into it, it's like you unlock a superpower. Right? It's like you reach kind of a different level. at's something that's always interesting to talk about. You started out at Kantar, spent some time at Unilever, went to Hasbro, and now at Yola. What we always like to start here. What sparked your interest in consumer insights? Why market research? How did you end up here? And what has kept you curious over the years?

Matt 5:02 That's great. It's super interesting. I love the way you spoke to this, like, combination of the two hemispheres of your brain. That's a really interesting concept. I think we hear sometimes talking to other researchers that there is a creative element in this industry. And when you can tap into it, it's like you unlock a superpower. Right? It's like you reach kind of a different level. s, like, combination of the two hemispheres of your brain. That's a really interesting concept. I think we hear sometimes talking to other researchers that there is a creative element in this industry. And when you can tap into it, it's like you unlock a superpower. Right? It's like you reach kind of a different level.

Leyla 5:21 Definitely. Definitely. I describe myself as a storyteller disguised as a strategist. Right? Which I think directly kind of speaks to that, that being creative is not really a nice to have in this line of work. I actually do see it as an essential element of being a strong researcher.

Stephanie 5:38 For sure. We love that. We clocked that that you refer to yourself as a storyteller disguised as a strategy. I'm curious, what does that look like in your day to day?

Leyla 5:49 So for me, it all starts with quite a simple question, and I try to ask it to myself every day, which is, so what? Right? So what? I actually learned that at u lover and it has really really stuck with me over the years. Right? So what I mean by that is data in isolation, it doesn't actually mean anything. Okay? So if I tell you, for example, this brand has 15% market share, so what? Right? I don't understand. Is that good? Is it bad? Kind of is it concerning? How should I feel about it? Right? What does it mean? So in my eyes, this is where storytelling really comes in, and it's how you kind of take raw data, whether that is numbers or qualitative data, and you convert it into something that really drives action. Right? I think as insights professionals, we all have the same goal ultimately, which is to create some kind of of impact and stop our work just sitting unread, collecting dust in in someone's inbox. Right? That's kind of our big biggest nightmare as researchers. And I really do strongly think that storytelling is the secret source that kind of ensures your work is never going to get lost. Right? And ultimately, that is because storytelling makes something memorable. Right? People remember stories, not statistics. It makes it kind of emotionally resonate with you. It makes it actionable. And especially now, I think decision makers, especially high level executives like CEOs, for example, it's just absolute information overload. Right? With lots of data that is not related to market research like finance, operations, HR, and so storytelling to me is really what helps separate the signal from the noise. Right? And here I think of something that has played a really important role for me throughout my career, which is this idea of an elevator test. Right? So I always think if a stakeholder hears my presentation and then they go meet their colleague in the elevator, would they be able to explain the and if core insight and action to someone in twenty seconds or less. Right? And if my story is strong enough and it's emotionally compelling, then, you know, the answer is always going to be yes. s, like, combination of the two hemispheres of your brain. That's a really interesting concept. I think we hear sometimes talking to other researchers that there is a creative element in this industry. And when you can tap into it, it's like you unlock a superpower. Right? It's like you reach kind of a different level. Definitely. Definitely. I describe myself as a storyteller disguised as a strategist. Right? Which I think directly kind of speaks to that, that being creative is not really a nice to have in this line of work. I actually do see it as an essential element of being a strong researcher.

Stephanie 5:38 For sure. We love that. We clocked that that you refer to yourself as a storyteller disguised as a strategy. I'm curious, what does that look like in your day to day?

Leyla 5:49 So for me, it all starts with quite a simple question, and I try to ask it to myself every day, which is, so what? Right? So what? I actually learned that at u lover and it has really really stuck with me over the years. Right? So what I mean by that is data in isolation, it doesn't actually mean anything. Okay? So if I tell you, for example, this brand has 15% market share, so what? Right? I don't understand. Is that good? Is it bad? Kind of is it concerning? How should I feel about it? Right? What does it mean? So in my eyes, this is where storytelling really comes in, and it's how you kind of take raw data, whether that is numbers or qualitative data, and you convert it into something that really drives action. Right? I think as insights professionals, we all have the same goal ultimately, which is to create some kind of of impact and stop our work just sitting unread, collecting dust in in someone's inbox. Right? That's kind of our big biggest nightmare as researchers. And I really do strongly think that storytelling is the secret source that kind of ensures your work is never going to get lost. Right? And ultimately, that is because storytelling makes something memorable. Right? People remember stories, not statistics. It makes it kind of emotionally resonate with you. It makes it actionable. And especially now, I think decision makers, especially high level executives like CEOs, for example, it's just absolute information overload. Right? With lots of data that is not related to market research like finance, operations, HR, and so storytelling to me is really what helps separate the signal from the noise. Right? And here I think of something that has played a really important role for me throughout my career, which is this idea of an elevator test. Right? So I always think if a stakeholder hears my presentation and then they go meet their colleague in the elevator, would they be able to explain the and if core insight and action to someone in twenty seconds or less. Right? And if my story is strong enough and it's emotionally compelling, then, you know, the answer is always going to be yes. a stakeholder hears my presentation and then they go meet their colleague in the elevator, would they be able to explain the and if core insight and action to someone in twenty seconds or less. Right? And if my story is strong enough and it's emotionally compelling, then, you know, the answer is always going to be yes.

Matt 8:00 Really cool. I like the idea of kinda turning the elevator pitch on its head and adding that creative element. Like, how do you make it sticky? How do you make it sticky to the person who has to convey the value even though they themselves might not be the the subject matter expert. They just heard your story. I I think that's a great idea. That's a great test. I'm gonna take note of that one. I'm gonna use that one.

Stephanie 8:20 I know. Right? Write that down. So, Leila, Matt and I both really wanna get into this topic with you. It's so fun and so exciting and and really different from a conversation that we've been able to have so far on the podcast, which is about building an incise function from the ground up like you've done at Yolba. That is no small feat, obviously, and we are so curious what it's like to come into a somewhat mature organization that is ready, that is showing that readiness to shift from instinct driven to insight led decision making. That's very rare, I feel like. And I'm curious, were you empowered to make the changes that you knew were needed? a stakeholder hears my presentation and then they go meet their colleague in the elevator, would they be able to explain the and if core insight and action to someone in twenty seconds or less. Right? And if my story is strong enough and it's emotionally compelling, then, you know, the answer is always going to be yes.

Stephanie 8:20 I know. Right? Write that down. So, Leila, Matt and I both really wanna get into this topic with you. It's so fun and so exciting and and really different from a conversation that we've been able to have so far on the podcast, which is about building an incise function from the ground up like you've done at Yolba. That is no small feat, obviously, and we are so curious what it's like to come into a somewhat mature organization that is ready, that is showing that readiness to shift from instinct driven to insight led decision making. That's very rare, I feel like. And I'm curious, were you empowered to make the changes that you knew were needed? feat, obviously, and we are so curious what it's like to come into a somewhat mature organization that is ready, that is showing that readiness to shift from instinct driven to insight led decision making. That's very rare, I feel like. And I'm curious, were you empowered to make the changes that you knew were needed?

Leyla 9:01 Yeah. It's definitely it's been a huge learning experience for me and just such an exciting opportunity because, you know, as you mentioned, outside of a startup environment, it's very rare that you can actually go into an organization and really build something from the ground up. So ultimately, for me, you know, every research function starts with the same question. Right? Which is, what do we already know or rather what do we think we know? So I arrived at YOLA. My first month or so, I just spent a lot of time speaking to people across different teams. I remember there was a running joke that I was just never at my desk. Right? Because I was always speaking to someone in someone's office. Right? So I would ask them things like, what do you think YOLA is best at? Where do you think we need to grow? And more importantly, how do you know that? Right? What is that based on? And a really consistent theme emerged, a couple of things. So the main one was that people saw YOLA as this kind of go to brand for premium pickleball paddles, um, and very high level performance focused players. Right? But there was a big shared belief that we had a lot more room to grow in the kind of casual recreational pickleball market. And when I asked people, you know, how do you know this? Where does this understanding come from? Uh, most just pointed to experience. Right? So they said, well, you know, we've spent years in this industry. We have pretty strong gut feelings. We have anecdotal evidence. We're surrounded by people who who know this industry quite well. So that level of intuition is very valuable. Right? Uh, even as a market researcher who's very strongly grounded in data, I do think intuition is a very, very valuable thing to have. But it was pretty clear to me that even though we had strong instincts around that kind of highly engaged player base, we lacked real data when it came to that big fast growing casual market. Right? So that was the first thing was kind of understanding the broader research need. And then the second aspect was data, of course. So I came in, I did a full data audit. So I was looking at, you know, what do we already have. And in this case, it was mostly internal data. So things like sales, internal digital analytics, campaign tracking, there wasn't really much kind of external data and the gaps that there were. Right? And so from that, I built quite a high level kind of research roadmap, right, which was connecting our North Star goal, which was let's shift all of our decision making from from instincts to to insight driven decisions. What are the specific questions we want to answer? So, for example, what does the casual recreational pickleball market look like? What data do we have? And then what data do we still need to answer that? And that kind of framework for me just just made it easier to sort of rally around research as a strategic tool that was gonna drive decision making rather than a kind of nice to have, which was just confirming what we already knew. feat, obviously, and we are so curious what it's like to come into a somewhat mature organization that is ready, that is showing that readiness to shift from instinct driven to insight led decision making. That's very rare, I feel like. And I'm curious, were you empowered to make the changes that you knew were needed? Yeah. It's definitely it's been a huge learning experience for me and just such an exciting opportunity because, you know, as you mentioned, outside of a startup environment, it's very rare that you can actually go into an organization and really build something from the ground up. So ultimately, for me, you know, every research function starts with the same question. Right? Which is, what do we already know or rather what do we think we know? So I arrived at YOLA. My first month or so, I just spent a lot of time speaking to people across different teams. I remember there was a running joke that I was just never at my desk. Right? Because I was always speaking to someone in someone's office. Right? So I would ask them things like, what do you think YOLA is best at? Where do you think we need to grow? And more importantly, how do you know that? Right? What is that based on? And a really consistent theme emerged, a couple of things. So the main one was that people saw YOLA as this kind of go to brand for premium pickleball paddles, um, and very high level performance focused players. Right? But there was a big shared belief that we had a lot more room to grow in the kind of casual recreational pickleball market. And when I asked people, you know, how do you know this? Where does this understanding come from? Uh, most just pointed to experience. Right? So they said, well, you know, we've spent years in this industry. We have pretty strong gut feelings. We have anecdotal evidence. We're surrounded by people who who know this industry quite well. So that level of intuition is very valuable. Right? Uh, even as a market researcher who's very strongly grounded in data, I do think intuition is a very, very valuable thing to have. But it was pretty clear to me that even though we had strong instincts around that kind of highly engaged player base, we lacked real data when it came to that big fast growing casual market. Right? So that was the first thing was kind of understanding the broader research need. And then the second aspect was data, of course. So I came in, I did a full data audit. So I was looking at, you know, what do we already have. And in this case, it was mostly internal data. So things like sales, internal digital analytics, campaign tracking, there wasn't really much kind of external data and the gaps that there were. Right? And so from that, I built quite a high level kind of research roadmap, right, which was connecting our North Star goal, which was let's shift all of our decision making from from instincts to to insight driven decisions. What are the specific questions we want to answer? So, for example, what does the casual recreational pickleball market look like? What data do we have? And then what data do we still need to answer that? And that kind of framework for me just just made it easier to sort of rally around research as a strategic tool that was gonna drive decision making rather than a kind of nice to have, which was just confirming what we already knew. et look like? What data do we have? And then what data do we still need to answer that? And that kind of framework for me just just made it easier to sort of rally around research as a strategic tool that was gonna drive decision making rather than a kind of nice to have, which was just confirming what we already knew.

Matt 12:10 That's incredible.

Stephanie 12:11 If they're, like and, you know, certainly don't wanna, like, give away all of YOLA's secret sauce, but I'm curious if you feel like there's a generalizable sort of, like, set of you know, if you're coming into an an org that hasn't traditionally had a lot of primary research, is there low hanging fruit? What is the low hanging fruit? Like, what are the foundational things that have to be in

Leyla 12:34 place first? Sure. I think at a high level, the biggest priority if you are building an insights function completely from scratch is understanding where do you sit in the market. Right? So to me, that is really, really foundational knowledge because it's very easy for a brand to just operate in an echo chamber. Right? You're making decisions based on internal assumptions. You're saying you're you're very strong in one part of the market, but you actually don't have a clear of the competitive landscape. So for us at Yola, the core starting point was market share. We didn't know what our market share was. So immediately, I came in and I said, we need to know how much of the market we actually own, which segments are we strong in, what are the big opportunities, what are the big threats. Right? That clarity to me is is going to drive everything from our product strategy. Right? What do we need to launch? How we're going to communicate with different audience segments? Because, for example, if we're over performing in the premium segment, but we're kind of under penetrated in the casual space, that insight is going to completely inform how we shape our future growth. Right? As I mentioned, so what types of products should we make? Why should we distribute them? How that should they be priced? What audiences do we need to market. Right? How much of the market do we own? How much is that left up for grabs?

Stephanie 14:06 Makes sense. So you've got to understand all that sort of that foundational, like, who we are and where we are before you can start to waterfall down into actual strategy for market and for brand, it sounds like. et look like? What data do we have? And then what data do we still need to answer that? And that kind of framework for me just just made it easier to sort of rally around research as a strategic tool that was gonna drive decision making rather than a kind of nice to have, which was just confirming what we already knew.

Matt 12:10 That's incredible.

Stephanie 14:06 Makes sense. So you've got to understand all that sort of that foundational, like, who we are and where we are before you can start to waterfall down into actual strategy for market and for brand, it sounds like. market. Right? How much of the market do we own? How much is that left up for grabs? Makes sense. So you've got to understand all that sort of that foundational, like, who we are and where we are before you can start to waterfall down into actual strategy for market and for brand, it sounds like.

Matt 14:18 It's so true, and we see it so often that situational awareness just doesn't exist. It can unlock real value when you're building something up from scratch like this. It's net new. It can be exciting to executives when when they get the value and they, you know, they buy into your pitch. But the communication of that can be a challenge. I know. It Sounds like I don't know if we wanna throw out numbers. I don't know if you wanna brag, but it sounds like you were able to unlock some pretty significant revenue at Yola by, you know, really tackling these these foundational elements. I'm just curious about how you balance that opportunity with also being, like, realistic about what it takes to capture it. And, you know, how do you speak the language of of the business to overcome those hurdles that exist when something is is net new? How do you do that?

Leyla 15:08 It's complicated. It's complicated that for sure. But again, that's what kind of makes it interesting and exciting. Right? So in terms of the the market sizing aspect, honestly, this is probably the most challenging market sizing work I have ever done.

Matt 15:25 Interesting.

Leyla 15:25 So I was able to uncover $374,000,000 untapped market in pickleball.

Stephanie 15:32 It's a pretty big discovery.

Leyla 15:33 It's amazing.

Matt 15:34 Big fight. But

Leyla 15:35 it was very, very complicated to do. So as I mentioned, the most difficult market sizing I've ever done, and also the most exciting. So the core issue there was pickleball is it's a very new it's a very fragmented category, which means the data is limited compared to something more established. Right? So if I think back to Unilever, for example, great, consumer packaged goods. Yeah. It's been around for a long time. Nice established data, get yourself a subscription to Nielsen, IRI, you're sorted. Right? But with Pickleball, there is no one clean source of truth, unfortunately. So the way that I would break that down is think about all the places you can buy a pickleball panel. Right? So, of course, you can buy in mass retail, Walmart, Target. I don't think I have walked into a single Walmart or Target now that does not have a pickleball

Stephanie 16:29 pattern. Same.

Matt 16:30 I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. market. Right? How much of the market do we own? How much is that left up for grabs?

Matt 15:25 Interesting.

Leyla 15:25 So I was able to uncover $374,000,000 untapped market in pickleball.

Stephanie 15:32 It's a pretty big discovery.

Leyla 15:33 It's amazing.

Matt 15:34 Big fight. But

Stephanie 16:29 pattern. Same.

Matt 16:30 I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. d break that down is think about all the places you can buy a pickleball panel. Right? So, of course, you can buy in mass retail, Walmart, Target. I don't think I have walked into a single Walmart or Target now that does not have a pickleball

Stephanie 16:29 pattern. Same.

Matt 16:30 I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Leyla 16:31 It's the sport is huge. It's really taken America by storm. That's for sure. Obviously, you can buy on Amazon as well, direct to consumer websites. So especially retailers like Pickleball Central, Just Paddles, that sort of thing, they're huge. And then you've also got your business to business partnerships. So for example, Yola has a partnership with with Lifetime Gym. So if you ever go and play pickleball in Lifetime Gym, you're going to be using a YOLA paddle. Right? So that came up with this this huge challenge which was, how do I stitch together all of these different kind of puzzle pieces into something which is more cohesive in terms of market sizing. So for mass retail and Amazon, pretty straightforward. Right? We had quite traditional research tools there. But for online and the direct to consumer space, I had to get really, really creative. So I ended up using digital analytics. I used tools like Semrush, and I said, okay, how many people have been to the, uh, checkout pages of these websites? Obviously, we have industry knowledge on, you know, how much are people gonna be spending on average. And then, obviously, people will be abandoning their carts to some level, so we map that out in line with industry estimates. And it was very scrappy. Right? But it it worked, and it allowed us to calculate Yola's current share and then that kind of $400,000,000 untapped market opportunity. And so to go back to your of balancing opportunity with realism, that part is huge. Right? So internally, we were very, very clear. You know, this is not a prediction of revenue in any sense. I would honestly suggest most market researchers kind of steer away from that type of work. I don't necessarily think it's in our wheelhouse to do that. Right?

Matt 18:21 Volumetrics is very much its own thing.

Leyla 18:23 Yes. So I try to frame it as this is more of an estimate of the total market potential. Right? So capturing it is going to involve a lot of things in terms of investment, brand positioning, distribution, etcetera. But the main goal was just to give us that kind of North Star, something really, really sort of tangible for everyone to rally around and to strategize around, which was we need to increase our market share in the recreational and casual market. Right? And that's exactly what that piece of work did.

Matt 18:56 It's amazing. What was the immediate reaction from Legacy? Was it was it a little bit of a sell that you had to do? Or or were they all in?

Leyla 19:03 Not at all. They were all in. They were all in, I think. To put it bluntly, money talks. Right? Money talks.

Matt 19:09 Once you're d break that down is think about all the places you can buy a pickleball panel. Right? So, of course, you can buy in mass retail, Walmart, Target. I don't think I have walked into a single Walmart or Target now that does not have a pickleball

Stephanie 16:29 pattern. Same.

Matt 16:30 I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Matt 18:21 Volumetrics is very much its own thing.

Matt 18:56 It's amazing. What was the immediate reaction from Legacy? Was it was it a little bit of a sell that you had to do? Or or were they all in?

Leyla 19:03 Not at all. They were all in. They were all in, I think. To put it bluntly, money talks. Right? Money talks.

Matt 19:09 Once you're did. It's amazing. What was the immediate reaction from Legacy? Was it was it a little bit of a sell that you had to do? Or or were they all in?

Leyla 19:03 Not at all. They were all in. They were all in, I think. To put it bluntly, money talks. Right? Money talks.

Matt 19:09 Once you're

Leyla 19:10 able to actually convert things into dollar value, it it does make a huge difference, especially if you are speaking to high level senior stakeholders who are perhaps less experienced with market research. That's honestly one challenge that I find with survey data sometimes is senior executives don't take it quite as seriously because sometimes there isn't a dollar value associated with it. So for example, when I'm doing things like citing survey data, I will typically start with a market estimate for each audience segment. Just and, again, it's scrappy. Right? It's not any kind of predictive value by any means, but you're taking things like your average spend, purchase frequency, how many people are in each segment. So then you can open your research with something like I said. Okay. We have $400,000,000 of untapped market opportunity here. Right? Okay. So now I've got your attention. Now we can go through the more kind of attitudinal and behavioral insights. Right? But sometimes if you're speaking to to non research folks, you have to set that context of this is tangible, real business value. Right? This isn't just something which we're going to use to help us decide what to post on social media. This is something which is is is fundamental to our actual revenue as a business.

Matt 20:26 That's great insight.

Stephanie 20:27 For sure. And it it really, I think, calls out, like, how much of a Swiss army knife you kind of have to be, especially in terms of, like, ability to work with and think about the kinds of data sources that are gonna serve you well. And it isn't always surveys, and it isn't always focus groups. Right? It's not always primary research. It's about looking at the data that's out there, point of sale, things like that. And I love that you're like you were having to stitch this all together across multiple sources, and it the goal wasn't complete accuracy. It was a picture of of the industry that people could understand and get behind and start to make strategic decisions around and based on. And I think that's such a good callout for researchers in general, in particular, who sit on the brand side. So you've mentioned this a little bit, but I would love to dive into sort of audience segmentation and and how you have approached it. It's obviously such an important part of a business's strategy. Even more critically now as as brands are kinda balancing broad appeal with, like, personalized marketing, which is such a big deal right now. What did you learn when you were sort of building out Yola's first segmentation or or segmentation that surprised you? Was there anything that that you learned that was surprising and was, you know, kinda related to that? Is there a segment or an insight that really challenged some existing assumptions? did.

Matt 18:56 It's amazing. What was the immediate reaction from Legacy? Was it was it a little bit of a sell that you had to do? Or or were they all in?

Leyla 19:03 Not at all. They were all in. They were all in, I think. To put it bluntly, money talks. Right? Money talks.

Matt 19:09 Once you're

Matt 20:26 That's great insight.

Leyla 21:52 Yeah. So I think what surprised me the most doing that first audience segmentation was just how big the pickleball audience is overall. Right? And, specifically, how small the expert player segment really, really is in comparison. Right? So internally, as I mentioned, we've always known Yola's strength is very much in those premium panels designed for folks who are highly engaged. They're very performance driven. They want to level up, and YOLO is the best brand for that. But when we actually quantified it, you know, that segment is only about 30% of the total audience. Right? Which is sort of mind blowing that there's that's a whole 70% of people that is up for grabs, essentially. So that insight, I think, challenged quite a lot of assumptions. Right? It showed that while we're very, very strong in that niche, the much larger opportunity is in that recreational and casual space. So, you know, it it forced us to think more broadly about, okay, how can we take the credibility that we have definitely, definitely built with serious pickleball players, and how can we kind of use that as a halo to appeal to more beginners, more casual fans of the game. So it definitely turned some heads internally, but in my view, that is what all good research should do. Right? It should reframe what we think we know. It should spark new new conversations.

Stephanie 23:21 Well, in such, like, downstream implications for brand, for comms, for product. Right? Like, there were implications everywhere for that finding. It's fascinating.

Leyla 23:31 Yeah. Huge. And as all good market research, it should be the core of everything, as I said. Right? That is what then dictates what products are we making, how should they be priced, what channels should we market on, what should the marketing messaging be. It all stemmed from that core insight of we need to better understand recreational and casual players. deal right now. What did you learn when you were sort of building out Yola's first segmentation or or segmentation that surprised you? Was there anything that that you learned that was surprising and was, you know, kinda related to that? Is there a segment or an insight that really challenged some existing assumptions? Yeah. So I think what surprised me the most doing that first audience segmentation was just how big the pickleball audience is overall. Right? And, specifically, how small the expert player segment really, really is in comparison. Right? So internally, as I mentioned, we've always known Yola's strength is very much in those premium panels designed for folks who are highly engaged. They're very performance driven. They want to level up, and YOLO is the best brand for that. But when we actually quantified it, you know, that segment is only about 30% of the total audience. Right? Which is sort of mind blowing that there's that's a whole 70% of people that is up for grabs, essentially. So that insight, I think, challenged quite a lot of assumptions. Right? It showed that while we're very, very strong in that niche, the much larger opportunity is in that recreational and casual space. So, you know, it it forced us to think more broadly about, okay, how can we take the credibility that we have definitely, definitely built with serious pickleball players, and how can we kind of use that as a halo to appeal to more beginners, more casual fans of the game. So it definitely turned some heads internally, but in my view, that is what all good research should do. Right? It should reframe what we think we know. It should spark new new conversations.

Stephanie 23:21 Well, in such, like, downstream implications for brand, for comms, for product. Right? Like, there were implications everywhere for that finding. It's fascinating.

Matt 23:49 It occurs to me that you have worked in fast moving categories. Basically, your entire career, like, real fast. CPG, I would imagine toys and games, very similar. And now sports, obviously, like you said it yourself. We didn't even know what pickleball was just a few short years ago. How do you balance that? I know that, you know, when working in a fast moving category, research can take a little bit of a different flavor. The approach can take a little bit of a different flavor. Right? I hesitate to say agile because it turns some people off. But, you know, when when you start thinking about ways to do less with more, to get answers quickly in a in a way that enables quick iteration, sort of lends to that that different way of of thinking and of of approaching just the project management of the research. Right? Are there frameworks or processes that you use on on your side that have kind of enabled you to thrive in that type of environment?

Leyla 24:46 Honestly, I would say this has been my biggest personal learning curve. I am naturally very, very detail orientated. I know there's huge strategy decisions which are hinging on my research, and I'm very, very committed to delivering work, which is high quality. I have quite high standards for myself. I want the insights to be very robust. So learning to actually be okay with good enough for now instead of 50% all in perfection was very challenging for me. It was a big mindset shift. Right? So, ironically, I would say stakeholders themselves are often much more comfortable with directional insights than me. So they're the ones saying, it's good enough. We just need to make a little bit more of an informed decision. It doesn't need to be

Matt 25:37 That's so true. rch, it should be the core of everything, as I said. Right? That is what then dictates what products are we making, how should they be priced, what channels should we market on, what should the marketing messaging be. It all stemmed from that core insight of we need to better understand recreational and casual players. It occurs to me that you have worked in fast moving categories. Basically, your entire career, like, real fast. CPG, I would imagine toys and games, very similar. And now sports, obviously, like you said it yourself. We didn't even know what pickleball was just a few short years ago. How do you balance that? I know that, you know, when working in a fast moving category, research can take a little bit of a different flavor. The approach can take a little bit of a different flavor. Right? I hesitate to say agile because it turns some people off. But, you know, when when you start thinking about ways to do less with more, to get answers quickly in a in a way that enables quick iteration, sort of lends to that that different way of of thinking and of of approaching just the project management of the research. Right? Are there frameworks or processes that you use on on your side that have kind of enabled you to thrive in that type of environment?

Matt 25:37 That's so true. It was a big mindset shift. Right? So, ironically, I would say stakeholders themselves are often much more comfortable with directional insights than me. So they're the ones saying, it's good enough. We just need to make a little bit more of an informed decision. It doesn't need to be That's so true.

Leyla 25:38 Perfect. And I'm the one in my head saying, I would really prefer if it were perfect. Right? But YOLA in particular, it is such a fast paced environment. Often, there isn't time for deep dive research. So I've learned to stay quite agile by sort of looking across multiple data sources and asking, okay, what patterns keep emerging? Right? What signals are consistent even at a high level? So I can give you a good example, which is recently I did some global market sizing for pickleball. Now as I told you, very, very fragmented category even in The US, so this was no small task at all. Right? Imagine all the complexities I mentioned about The US market, and then you're thinking, how does this apply to Vietnam and to China and to India where there's even less data available? Very complicated thing to do, add in another layer of we didn't have much much time to do this at all. Definitely no time for a survey in this context. So I had to think on my feet, and I said, let's just use Google search. Right? Let's use Google search volume as a proxy for consumer interest. Right? We can benchmark different countries against The US, seeing as The US is the most established market, and then we can assess maturity and sort of growth potential. Right? So then we're able to categorize markets into groups like, okay, this is an emerging market where the interest is in pickable is quite low relative to The US, but it's growing quite quickly. Right? Or or the inverse. It's an established market like Canada where interest is quite high, but then the growth is a little bit lower. So that gave us a really kind of fast actionable framework to work with even if it wasn't quite perfect. Right? And that is my key learning, I would say, across the past decade of my career is, you know, speed and rigor, they can actually coexist at the same time if you're just clear about what the trade offs are, and you're transparent about what the data can and can't say. It was a big mindset shift. Right? So, ironically, I would say stakeholders themselves are often much more comfortable with directional insights than me. So they're the ones saying, it's good enough. We just need to make a little bit more of an informed decision. It doesn't need to be

Matt 25:37 That's so true.

Leyla 25:38 Perfect. And I'm the one in my head saying, I would really prefer if it were perfect. Right? But YOLA in particular, it is such a fast paced environment. Often, there isn't time for deep dive research. So I've learned to stay quite agile by sort of looking across multiple data sources and asking, okay, what patterns keep emerging? Right? What signals are consistent even at a high level? So I can give you a good example, which is recently I did some global market sizing for pickleball. Now as I told you, very, very fragmented category even in The US, so this was no small task at all. Right? Imagine all the complexities I mentioned about The US market, and then you're thinking, how does this apply to Vietnam and to China and to India where there's even less data available? Very complicated thing to do, add in another layer of we didn't have much much time to do this at all. Definitely no time for a survey in this context. So I had to think on my feet, and I said, let's just use Google search. Right? Let's use Google search volume as a proxy for consumer interest. Right? We can benchmark different countries against The US, seeing as The US is the most established market, and then we can assess maturity and sort of growth potential. Right? So then we're able to categorize markets into groups like, okay, this is an emerging market where the interest is in pickable is quite low relative to The US, but it's growing quite quickly. Right? Or or the inverse. It's an established market like Canada where interest is quite high, but then the growth is a little bit lower. So that gave us a really kind of fast actionable framework to work with even if it wasn't quite perfect. Right? And that is my key learning, I would say, across the past decade of my career is, you know, speed and rigor, they can actually coexist at the same time if you're just clear about what the trade offs are, and you're transparent about what the data can and can't say. k to work with even if it wasn't quite perfect. Right? And that is my key learning, I would say, across the past decade of my career is, you know, speed and rigor, they can actually coexist at the same time if you're just clear about what the trade offs are, and you're transparent about what the data can and can't say.

Matt 27:48 That is definitely the responsibility of of us as the researchers. I think that's such a great call out that really hit that when you mentioned, you know, it's often not the stakeholders that need the convincing to move ahead. It's like this is why the world needs executives, right, to help us get out of our own heads. Like, we feel as though we are the, you know, the keepers of the flame or around the integrity of the work. And it is it's freeing. Right? I mean, I've I've been on that journey where you'll have an interaction with an executive like that, and it's like, oh, I see it. We just need to move on this. You're you're looking for a different level of of decision making support that we can enable in a different way. Like, having that recognition combined with what you just shared, it is it still falls on us to to share implications, risks. But it's such a freeing way to look at at moving forward. You might not need segmentation, uh, quantitative segmentation. You you might just be able to Google your way through it.

Stephanie 28:46 A global quantitative segmentation no less. Yeah.

Matt 28:50 Right. Right.

Leyla 28:51 Definitely. I think that's why I probably couldn't be an entrepreneur, and most of us in research couldn't be entrepreneur because we are quite uncomfortable with taking massive risks or taking decisions when you feel like there's gaps in the data. Right? But as you say, that's why having a market researcher and an exec together is is a really powerful sort of dream team. Right? Because you're able to make informed decisions, but things still get done. You can move forward even if you're not a 10% confident in something. It's often the case of saying, for now, this is good enough.

Stephanie 29:25 Absolutely. To switch gears a little bit, because I definitely wanna talk about this with you. We talk a lot, Leila, on the podcast about I think it even came up already earlier from you about the kind of varied backgrounds for consumer insights professionals. You like you know, everyone you meet comes from a slightly different background. You have the academic cohorts, like psychologists and anthropologists who make their way here. You have folks coming up to that, you know, MMR, very pure market research background. You yourself, English major, it sounded like. But you recently completed a master's of marketing at Georgetown. And I am so curious to know how doing that, especially in your you know, once you've been in your career for some amount of time, how that changed your approach to consumer insights and how it's made you better at your job? k to work with even if it wasn't quite perfect. Right? And that is my key learning, I would say, across the past decade of my career is, you know, speed and rigor, they can actually coexist at the same time if you're just clear about what the trade offs are, and you're transparent about what the data can and can't say.

Stephanie 28:46 A global quantitative segmentation no less. Yeah.

Matt 28:50 Right. Right.

Stephanie 29:25 Absolutely. To switch gears a little bit, because I definitely wanna talk about this with you. We talk a lot, Leila, on the podcast about I think it even came up already earlier from you about the kind of varied backgrounds for consumer insights professionals. You like you know, everyone you meet comes from a slightly different background. You have the academic cohorts, like psychologists and anthropologists who make their way here. You have folks coming up to that, you know, MMR, very pure market research background. You yourself, English major, it sounded like. But you recently completed a master's of marketing at Georgetown. And I am so curious to know how doing that, especially in your you know, once you've been in your career for some amount of time, how that changed your approach to consumer insights and how it's made you better at your job? nglish major, it sounded like. But you recently completed a master's of marketing at Georgetown. And I am so curious to know how doing that, especially in your you know, once you've been in your career for some amount of time, how that changed your approach to consumer insights and how it's made you better at your job?

Leyla 30:17 I would say it really it pushed me out of my research and insights bubble completely. Right? I'm not sure if if either of you resonate with this, but when your whole career has been research and insights, it's very easy to become siloed. You're so focused on data, research insights, what's the story. You're actually a bit disconnected from how it gets used in the rest of a business. Right? How does a business work? How do things get executed outside of of research? So what that degree gave me was a much deeper understanding of what happens after the market research, after the consumer insights. Right? So in particular, it helps me understand how the marketing teams build integrated campaigns, how do they, you know, decide what the KPIs should be, how do they make real world decisions about, you know, what channels are we going to launch this campaign on, what is the messaging. I actually used to joke a lot during my masters that my job basically stopped at, okay, here's the data. Good luck.

Stephanie 31:20 You're talking about that a lot. Yep. Use it

Leyla 31:22 as you want. Right? This next part is is not related to me. I've done my job here. But my degree really challenged that. It challenged me to think much more critically about what comes next and said, okay. The research and insights is actually just the first phase. Now what are you going to to do with it? That was a huge mindset shift for me. I do think it made me a better insights professional because it sort of made me connect the dots. Right? So now when I deliver research, I'm not just thinking about the story and my job ending after I've delivered it. I'm thinking a little bit more about the execution, the timelines, the budget. Am I recommending something which is just not feasible, right, and not action at all? And how can this insight actually move the needle across different teams? And if it can't, if it's something that's very, very difficult to execute against, then I probably shouldn't be recommending it.

Stephanie 32:16 Yeah. Makes a ton of sense.

Matt 32:18 Looking across your career from Kantar, I'll use Kantar as the starting point, to Yola today, what is one challenge that has kinda shaped your perspective as a leader? I know you mentioned, you know, you've established yourself as being the go to for scrappy market sizing. What's kinda like the challenge though that stands out in so far as it changed the way you approach leadership in the industry?

Leyla 32:42 First of all, being known for scrappy market sizing is great. I might well update my LinkedIn bio.

Stephanie 32:48 There you go. Yeah. I might like that. nglish major, it sounded like. But you recently completed a master's of marketing at Georgetown. And I am so curious to know how doing that, especially in your you know, once you've been in your career for some amount of time, how that changed your approach to consumer insights and how it's made you better at your job?

Stephanie 31:20 You're talking about that a lot. Yep. Use it

Stephanie 32:16 Yeah. Makes a ton of sense.

Leyla 32:42 First of all, being known for scrappy market sizing is great. I might well update my LinkedIn bio.

Stephanie 32:48 There you go. Yeah. I might like that. rket sizing. What's kinda like the challenge though that stands out in so far as it changed the way you approach leadership in the industry?

Leyla 32:42 First of all, being known for scrappy market sizing is great. I might well update my LinkedIn bio.

Stephanie 32:48 There you go. Yeah. I might like that.

Leyla 32:51 So I think the main challenge that has really shaped me is understanding and accepting that real life market research and insights in a business context is very, very messy. So it's going back to my idea of I always want the gold standard of research all the time. I'm so much more personally comfortable if things are done to a very, very high degree, very rigorous, very robust, very reliable. But most of the time, that is just not possible, right, due to budget, time constraints, issues with data access, all that type of stuff, especially working client side. So oftentimes, it's much more about thinking outside the box. Right? Being creative. I often think about market research as a jigsaw puzzle. Right? That's always my favorite, favorite metaphor when I explain it to people who who don't have a background in market research and consumer insights. It's starting from the end. So what should that finished picture look like? Right? What are the questions I want to understand? You know, how are these insights going to be used in a real life business context? And then reverse engineering. So saying, what puzzle pieces do I need to fit together to create that final picture? And so in the context of market research often being quite messy and scrappy and you're not able to do things perfectly, In terms of the jigsaw puzzle, it's it's saying, right now, I do not have the jigsaw puzzle piece that I want, but what could fit instead? Perhaps there are two other pieces that might fit instead, and it will still get me to that kind of end product. Even if it's not that ideal, perfect, fits correctly piece, it will often still be good enough. And I think that's something that most market researchers need to be a little bit more comfortable with. rket sizing. What's kinda like the challenge though that stands out in so far as it changed the way you approach leadership in the industry? First of all, being known for scrappy market sizing is great. I might well update my LinkedIn bio.

Stephanie 32:48 There you go. Yeah. I might like that.

Leyla 32:51 So I think the main challenge that has really shaped me is understanding and accepting that real life market research and insights in a business context is very, very messy. So it's going back to my idea of I always want the gold standard of research all the time. I'm so much more personally comfortable if things are done to a very, very high degree, very rigorous, very robust, very reliable. But most of the time, that is just not possible, right, due to budget, time constraints, issues with data access, all that type of stuff, especially working client side. So oftentimes, it's much more about thinking outside the box. Right? Being creative. I often think about market research as a jigsaw puzzle. Right? That's always my favorite, favorite metaphor when I explain it to people who who don't have a background in market research and consumer insights. It's starting from the end. So what should that finished picture look like? Right? What are the questions I want to understand? You know, how are these insights going to be used in a real life business context? And then reverse engineering. So saying, what puzzle pieces do I need to fit together to create that final picture? And so in the context of market research often being quite messy and scrappy and you're not able to do things perfectly, In terms of the jigsaw puzzle, it's it's saying, right now, I do not have the jigsaw puzzle piece that I want, but what could fit instead? Perhaps there are two other pieces that might fit instead, and it will still get me to that kind of end product. Even if it's not that ideal, perfect, fits correctly piece, it will often still be good enough. And I think that's something that most market researchers need to be a little bit more comfortable with. stead? Perhaps there are two other pieces that might fit instead, and it will still get me to that kind of end product. Even if it's not that ideal, perfect, fits correctly piece, it will often still be good enough. And I think that's something that most market researchers need to be a little bit more comfortable with.

Stephanie 34:41 It really sparks something for me when you said that because it makes me think and, you know, Matt and I, of course, sit on the supplier side of the industry, that part of my responsibility really needs to be to start asking, hey. What other puzzle pieces do you have? Like, what other data are you working with? And really recognizing that what I'm doing is a complimentary piece, it is not the thing. It is not the strategy. It is not the only piece of information. And I think if we can kinda take that message home, it it really is to start asking that question to understand better where we sit because it's gonna make us maximally useful to you. Right? To know, let's not prioritize this thing because you've got that here. We can use this time and this budget most effectively by doing x for you and really let us to be partners rather than, you know, kinda order takers or just doing our work in a silo just like, you know, you talked about the the dangers of that kinda siloed work. So Definitely. Definitely. That is something I've really seen from having been on both the client side and the supplier side is often client side, you will take work which has

Leyla 35:48 been done from the supplier side and you kind of slice it and dice it and you combine it with other things. And sometimes you'll just take one or two charts and you put it into your own presentation. Right? In the ideal world, you'd be working much more closely with your supplier where, as you said, they're able to give you that real kind of consultative value of, okay, let's sit down and map out what is all the research you're doing right now, what do you already know, what datasets do you have access to, how can we help you kind of connect the dots? Because that's gonna be much more valuable than us just running a survey and kind of sending you over the data knowing that you will probably take it and use it in a different way. Can we just go straight to that end end stage and do that for you and

Stephanie 36:30 help you with that? That's a great takeaway. Let's remember that, Matt.

Matt 36:34 Wrote that one down as well.

Stephanie 36:36 Well, to close this out here, Leila, one of the things that I would love to hear from you is, is there any advice that you can share for brand side researchers like yourself who may be in an organization that remains relatively instinct driven? And, you know, how can they, maybe not being quite as empowered as you were coming into Yola, but how can they start to drive incremental change and center the role of insights in strategy and decision making? stead? Perhaps there are two other pieces that might fit instead, and it will still get me to that kind of end product. Even if it's not that ideal, perfect, fits correctly piece, it will often still be good enough. And I think that's something that most market researchers need to be a little bit more comfortable with. It really sparks something for me when you said that because it makes me think and, you know, Matt and I, of course, sit on the supplier side of the industry, that part of my responsibility really needs to be to start asking, hey. What other puzzle pieces do you have? Like, what other data are you working with? And really recognizing that what I'm doing is a complimentary piece, it is not the thing. It is not the strategy. It is not the only piece of information. And I think if we can kinda take that message home, it it really is to start asking that question to understand better where we sit because it's gonna make us maximally useful to you. Right? To know, let's not prioritize this thing because you've got that here. We can use this time and this budget most effectively by doing x for you and really let us to be partners rather than, you know, kinda order takers or just doing our work in a silo just like, you know, you talked about the the dangers of that kinda siloed work. So Definitely. Definitely. That is something I've really seen from having been on both the client side and the supplier side is often client side, you will take work which has

Stephanie 36:30 help you with that? That's a great takeaway. Let's remember that, Matt.

Matt 36:34 Wrote that one down as well.

Leyla 37:05 Here, I would say it's really that storytelling aspect. As I mentioned at the beginning, you know, that is going to be your secret sauce. That is what will get you into the rooms with the decision makers, that elevator test. Right? Just tell the story. Forget about the data. The data ultimately is it's just a means to an end. Always remind yourself of that so what. Right? So what, so what, so what? What does it mean to my audience? How do I want them to feel? The sooner you focus on on that instead of the data, you would honestly be surprised at how many more conversations you're invited into and how people start viewing you as a fundamental part of their decision making process. Right? Rather than saying, I already want to do this. Let me do it and then go to market research and say, hey, was this a good idea? Instead of that, it's people saying, well, I don't really know what the story is. I need to go speak to Leila. She'll set my head straight. Tell me what I should focus on. Tell me what I should be concerned about, and then I'll go create my strategy. Right? So telling people this is what the story is rather than letting your stakeholders sort of scramble around trying to piece together the story themselves. Just give give people the story already.

Matt 38:15 It's great advice. My last question I like to torture our guests with on their way out is to look into your crystal ball and tell us from your perspective, from where you sit, what do you see as kind of the most impactful trends coming down in maybe the next five years that's gonna change the way we work, the way you work as a as an insights pro, whether that be in the insights industry or or whether in the category that you work in. What's gonna happen? or brand side researchers like yourself who may be in an organization that remains relatively instinct driven? And, you know, how can they, maybe not being quite as empowered as you were coming into Yola, but how can they start to drive incremental change and center the role of insights in strategy and decision making?

Matt 38:15 It's great advice. My last question I like to torture our guests with on their way out is to look into your crystal ball and tell us from your perspective, from where you sit, what do you see as kind of the most impactful trends coming down in maybe the next five years that's gonna change the way we work, the way you work as a as an insights pro, whether that be in the insights industry or or whether in the category that you work in. What's gonna happen? your perspective, from where you sit, what do you see as kind of the most impactful trends coming down in maybe the next five years that's gonna change the way we work, the way you work as a as an insights pro, whether that be in the insights industry or or whether in the category that you work in. What's gonna happen?

Leyla 38:43 Well, obviously, we all know that AI is is taking over the world now. Right? What's that? And that's not that's not a bad thing. It is making so many aspects of my life much much easier. Right? Obviously, my value is not sitting in Excel doing something which could easily be be automated, but the implications of that are market research and consumer insights now needs to become much more human. Right? So chat GPT can do parts of my analysis for me. Maybe it can write a couple of parts of my deck for me. What it cannot do is get up in a room of 50 people, right, and deliver something which is punchy, exciting, gets people to really feel something about the research. Right? Gets people to, again, go meet their colleague in the elevator and say, I'm so excited. Leila just uncovered this, you know, $400,000,000 untapped opportunity segment. Let's go do this. How are we going to act on it? Right? AI will will never be able to lend that kind of human emotive element, and I do think that is the way of bridging the gap between the research itself and people taking action is can you get people to to feel something. Right? AI will never take that away from me. That I am firm on.

Matt 40:03 I love that. And I think that's a sentiment that a lot of us share. Like, if we are here because we're interested in studying people, then it has to fall on us to keep people at the center of the work that we do.

Stephanie 40:13 It also really strikes me that your acting background is honestly part of your secret Leila. Obviously. Yeah.

Leyla 40:20 Definitely. It massively is. Would recommend any market researchers at least do a couple of acting classes. It really it changes the game for you. That's for sure. Alright. So we have our recurring ending segment that we your perspective, from where you sit, what do you see as kind of the most impactful trends coming down in maybe the next five years that's gonna change the way we work, the way you work as a as an insights pro, whether that be in the insights industry or or whether in the category that you work in. What's gonna happen? Well, obviously, we all know that AI is is taking over the world now. Right? What's that? And that's not that's not a bad thing. It is making so many aspects of my life much much easier. Right? Obviously, my value is not sitting in Excel doing something which could easily be be automated, but the implications of that are market research and consumer insights now needs to become much more human. Right? So chat GPT can do parts of my analysis for me. Maybe it can write a couple of parts of my deck for me. What it cannot do is get up in a room of 50 people, right, and deliver something which is punchy, exciting, gets people to really feel something about the research. Right? Gets people to, again, go meet their colleague in the elevator and say, I'm so excited. Leila just uncovered this, you know, $400,000,000 untapped opportunity segment. Let's go do this. How are we going to act on it? Right? AI will will never be able to lend that kind of human emotive element, and I do think that is the way of bridging the gap between the research itself and people taking action is can you get people to to feel something. Right? AI will never take that away from me. That I am firm on.

Stephanie 40:13 It also really strikes me that your acting background is honestly part of your secret Leila. Obviously. Yeah.

Leyla 40:20 Definitely. It massively is. Would recommend any market researchers at least do a couple of acting classes. It really it changes the game for you. That's for sure. Alright. So we have our recurring ending segment that we t your acting background is honestly part of your secret Leila. Obviously. Yeah. Definitely. It massively is. Would recommend any market researchers at least do a couple of acting classes. It really it changes the game for you. That's for sure. Alright. So we have our recurring ending segment that we

Matt 40:29 we've invited Leila to join. Recurring ending segment that we we've invited Leila to join us for on this episode of the Curiosity Current. That is the undercurrent where we all just talk about something that we are passionate about. Just take a couple of minutes and share a little bit of of details on something that's really influencing the way we're approaching our work or, you know, something that seems tangentially related or directly related to consumer insight, study of people, or what or what have you. It's our our chance to have a little bit of fun with just the things that we're geeking out about. I'll go first because it's going to sound like I tailored this to this conversation, but it's it's really just fortuitous timing. I have recently pulled down a book off of my shelf that I bought years ago and have only just recently dove back into. And that book is Story Mythos by Shane Meeker, which is all about looking at the way stories are told, particularly in film, and applying those principles to how you communicate the value of the work that you're doing, the, you know, how you make that sales pitch, how you communicate the findings from your research study in a way that, just like Leila was saying earlier in the episode, makes it so that that value is sticky, easily communicated, and remembered after a twenty second conversation in the elevator. I think that Leila was spot on when you were mentioning, Leila, how important it is for us as researchers to really curate stories around the work that we do because that's how we infuse the human element and make it seem real, make it come to life. This book is all about that. It's I would definitely give it a a read if if anyone listening hasn't. It's not new. It came out maybe, like, 2017, '20 '18. It's just a lot of fun too, especially if you're a movie buff because he works some really cool movie references in there. It's all about kinda like the hero's journey. You know, You start with, you know, who's the hero? Obviously, like, in a marketing context, it's your customer. What's the journey that they're on? What are they trying to overcome? You know, what's it like when they succeed? Looking at things through that lens is a really interesting way to do it. There are really great workshops in the book as well, like, you know, if you have a brand, imagine casting your brand's movie. Lots of really fun creative stuff, and it's, uh, just it's been a cool way to do a little bit of different thinking.

Leyla 43:00 Awesome. I'll have to check that out. That sounds absolutely fascinating. Honestly, I'm not really reading much fiction these days. I'm much more interested in nonfiction, so that definitely sounds like something worth diving into.

Matt 43:10 Yeah. It's interesting. t your acting background is honestly part of your secret Leila. Obviously. Yeah.

Matt 43:10 Yeah. It's interesting. bit of different thinking.

Matt 43:10 Yeah. It's interesting.

Stephanie 43:11 For sure. So I have to admit, this is I can only classify this as tangentially related, but I'm a social psychologist by training. So I am a sucker for theoretical or basic research in social psychology that has applied implications, in particular for, like, prosocial interventions, small shifts in how we think or behave that can be leveraged to create prosocial change. And I was just reading that there is a new peep paper out in communication psychology from some researchers that are out of England and Germany about how choices made individually for individual reward versus cooperatively for a joint reward can be influenced by how and when information about the reward structure is presented. I know that's just a lot of, you know, stuff. I'll get to the implications here.

Matt 44:00 You're gonna have to give me a non PhD version of that.

Stephanie 44:03 I know. I'm getting there. The research was done in the context of the prisoner's dilemma, if you guys know that. It's this concept from game theory that's been used to demonstrate how truly rational individuals might not cooperate even when it is in their best interest to do so. And so what this new research shows is that in the context of a prisoner's dilemma type experiment, when participants paid attention first to the payoffs that others would receive in the experiment, there was an increased likelihood that they would make cooperative decisions. And what I like about this and what it really drives home to me is that cooperation isn't just a matter of sort of a person's base line altruism or aligning people's personal incentives with those of the group, but there really is also this attentional aspect of things. And if we can create interventions where people are guided to focus first on the other rather than themselves that they are more likely to cooperate, and I just think that's cool. So

Matt 45:02 Interesting. So there it's like a order effect?

Stephanie 45:05 It's really just about capitalizing on attention early so that they are same information as they would receive no matter what. But by capitalizing on where their attention is, you're able to give them information that gives them the perspective of other before they necessarily consider self, and that changes that behavior.

Matt 45:23 Yeah. You kinda, like, hijacked their train of thought.

Stephanie 45:26 Yeah. It was done with rats, though. Just kidding. It wasn't. It was humans. I just like to say that. Sorry. Leila, take us

Leyla 45:32 home with this, though. Honestly, I have been spending a lot of time on Reddit lately.

Matt 45:37 Love Reddit.

Leyla 45:38 Love it. And it honestly just made me realize how it is such an underutilized tool in research. Right? So for example, now

Matt 45:45 100%. bit of different thinking.

Matt 43:10 Yeah. It's interesting.

Matt 44:00 You're gonna have to give me a non PhD version of that.

Matt 45:02 Interesting. So there it's like a order effect?

Matt 45:23 Yeah. You kinda, like, hijacked their train of thought.

Stephanie 45:26 Yeah. It was done with rats, though. Just kidding. It wasn't. It was humans. I just like to say that. Sorry. Leila, take us

Leyla 45:32 home with this, though. Honestly, I have been spending a lot of time on Reddit lately.

Matt 45:37 Love Reddit.

Leyla 45:38 Love it. And it honestly just made me realize how it is such an underutilized tool in research. Right? So for example, now

Matt 45:45 100%. y. Leila, take us

Leyla 45:32 home with this, though. Honestly, I have been spending a lot of time on Reddit lately.

Matt 45:37 Love Reddit.

Leyla 45:38 Love it. And it honestly just made me realize how it is such an underutilized tool in research. Right? So for example, now

Matt 45:45 100%.

Leyla 45:46 Whenever I want to buy something. Right? And I want to understand, okay, what's the real deal here rather than the promoted reviews on the website, what do people really think of this product? I will Google, for example, x brand skincare product, Reddit. And then go read what people think about it because that's where you get the really honest, no, this brand is overhyped, not worth it, here's a great alternative, and people are a lot more honest because it's anonymous, obviously. So Reddit, ideal hack, great for personal enjoyment and buying better products in general based on real people recommendations, but also amazing for research.

Matt 46:26 What is it about the Reddit magic that wherever you're in that secondary research death spiral trying to research stroller purchase, personal experience, you land on Reddit, and it's just like, they're my people. This is where my people have been. This is where they are. They're nowhere else on the Internet, but they're all there in one place. What is it? How did they do that? It's an amazing product.

Leyla 46:49 It was incredible.

Stephanie 46:50 I think part of it too is the upvoting system. Right? I mean, it's like it sort of polices it in a way where it's not policing, but, like, you know, people elevate the things that people that resonate with them. So they're, like, doing the the sizing part for us too. Right? Basically.

Leyla 47:06 Yeah.

Matt 47:07 Yeah. But you're so right. Like, the implications of that for market research, if there's a way to harness that in a really digestible manner, that'd be a powerful tool.

Leyla 47:17 Also, it does mean that when I am, you know, doom scrolling supposedly at the end of the day, I tell myself, oh, it's work.

Stephanie 47:23 This is research. I'm reading about people's That's just work. Experiences. Yeah.

Matt 47:27 Absolutely. Yeah.

Stephanie 47:28 Absolutely. Well, Leila, thank you so much for joining us. This has been a delightful and insightful conversation. We're just so happy you joined us today.

Leyla 47:36 Thank you so much.

Stephanie 47:38 The Curiosity Current is brought to you by AYTM.

Matt 47:42 To find out how AYTM helps brands connect with consumers and bring insights to life, visit aytm.com.

Stephanie 47:49 And to make sure you never miss an episode, subscribe to the Curiosity Current in Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Matt 47:58 Thanks for joining us, and we'll see you next time. y. Leila, take us

Leyla 45:32 home with this, though. Honestly, I have been spending a lot of time on Reddit lately.

Matt 45:37 Love Reddit.

Leyla 45:38 Love it. And it honestly just made me realize how it is such an underutilized tool in research. Right? So for example, now

Matt 45:45 100%.

Leyla 46:49 It was incredible.

Leyla 47:06 Yeah.

Matt 47:07 Yeah. But you're so right. Like, the implications of that for market research, if there's a way to harness that in a really digestible manner, that'd be a powerful tool.

Leyla 47:17 Also, it does mean that when I am, you know, doom scrolling supposedly at the end of the day, I tell myself, oh, it's work.

Stephanie 47:23 This is research. I'm reading about people's That's just work. Experiences. Yeah.

Matt 47:27 Absolutely. Yeah.

Stephanie 47:28 Absolutely. Well, Leila, thank you so much for joining us. This has been a delightful and insightful conversation. We're just so happy you joined us today.

Leyla 47:36 Thank you so much.

Stephanie 47:38 The Curiosity Current is brought to you by AYTM.

Matt 47:42 To find out how AYTM helps brands connect with consumers and bring insights to life, visit aytm.com.

Stephanie 47:49 And to make sure you never miss an episode, subscribe to the Curiosity Current in Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Matt 47:58 Thanks for joining us, and we'll see you next time.

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