Stephanie 0:01 Today on the Curiosity Current, we're joined by Ashley Hopkins, a powerhouse in the world of consumer insights and marketing strategy. Ashley has spent the past fifteen years weaving research into the DNA of brands like ASICs, Wayfair, and Apex. And now she's building the insights function at resident entirely from scratch. Question real quick. I'm so sorry.

Matt 0:24 That's okay.

Stephanie 0:24 It's okay. They'll fix this. Is it Apex? I meant to ask you that, or is that pronounced Apex? Okay. I'm so sorry.

Ashley 0:31 No. You're

Matt 0:31 good. Play on words.

Ashley 0:33 Yeah.

Matt 0:33 I like it. Ashley's journey is one of transformation. At ASICs, she turned a one person insights effort into a global team. At Wayfair, she shaped go to market strategy and loyalty programs. And now at Resonant, home of Nectar and DreamCloud, she's embedding insights into everything from product development to the digital experience.

Stephanie 0:55 We're gonna talk about what it really takes to build an insights program that lasts, how to make smart hires, and how to get even the most data skeptical executives on board with the power of consumer insights. Ashley, welcome to the Curiosity Current.

Ashley 1:11 Well, thank you for having me, and thank you for such a a kind introduction.

Matt 1:16 Of course. It it it's easy when we have someone who has such a a great and interesting background. Really looking forward to this conversation. So, uh, let's jump right in. First ninety days at resident, uh, you walk into this role, there's no existing insights infrastructure whatsoever. It it's it's a foreign word in the space. What did you do first? I'm so curious.

Ashley 1:44 Yeah. It's a great question. Um, and, you know, I think a natural inclination when you get into any new role is to hit the ground running and show impact immediately.

Matt 1:54 Yeah.

Stephanie 0:01 Today on the Curiosity Current, we're joined by Ashley Hopkins, a powerhouse in the world of consumer insights and marketing strategy. Ashley has spent the past fifteen years weaving research into the DNA of brands like ASICs, Wayfair, and Apex. And now she's building the insights function at resident entirely from scratch. Question real quick. I'm so sorry.

Matt 0:24 That's okay.

Stephanie 0:24 It's okay. They'll fix this. Is it Apex? I meant to ask you that, or is that pronounced Apex? Okay. I'm so sorry.

Ashley 0:31 No. You're

Matt 0:31 good. Play on words.

Ashley 0:33 Yeah.

Matt 0:33 I like it. Ashley's journey is one of transformation. At ASICs, she turned a one person insights effort into a global team. At Wayfair, she shaped go to market strategy and loyalty programs. And now at Resonant, home of Nectar and DreamCloud, she's embedding insights into everything from product development to the digital experience.

Stephanie 0:55 We're gonna talk about what it really takes to build an insights program that lasts, how to make smart hires, and how to get even the most data skeptical executives on board with the power of consumer insights. Ashley, welcome to the Curiosity Current.

Ashley 1:11 Well, thank you for having me, and thank you for such a a kind introduction.

Matt 1:16 Of course. It it it's easy when we have someone who has such a a great and interesting background. Really looking forward to this conversation. So, uh, let's jump right in. First ninety days at resident, uh, you walk into this role, there's no existing insights infrastructure whatsoever. It it's it's a foreign word in the space. What did you do first? I'm so curious.

Ashley 1:44 Yeah. It's a great question. Um, and, you know, I think a natural inclination when you get into any new role is to hit the ground running and show impact immediately.

Matt 1:54 Yeah. s infrastructure whatsoever. It it's it's a foreign word in the space. What did you do first? I'm so curious.

Ashley 1:44 Yeah. It's a great question. Um, and, you know, I think a natural inclination when you get into any new role is to hit the ground running and show impact immediately.

Matt 1:54 Yeah.

Ashley 1:54 And that is very important. But there's something I I learned when I was starting at ASICS, um, which is to to listen before you do anything. And so what I did at at resident and have done in previous roles is what I call a listening tour, and it's spending my time doing three very distinct things. One is getting to know the business. So I think one of the misconceptions with consumer insights is it's all about understanding the consumer, being a champion for the consumer, and helping people become more consumer centric, which it absolutely is. But that only works if you understand how the business makes money and why the business exists. And so good insights live at that intersection of consumer needs and business needs. And so to just jump in and try to create impact right away without understanding the business, you're you're gonna set yourself up for failure. So I spend as much time as I can understanding why does the business exist? Where are we going, how do we make money, what mistakes have we made, and trying to hear that from all different perspectives because finance is gonna have a very different perspective from marketing, from, you know, the c suite. And along those lines is the second thing, which is building trust. And I think this is true in any role, but especially a market research type role. It you could have incredible data. You can be, like, the most most methodologically sound researcher. But if people don't trust your interpretation of that data, it doesn't matter. So I'm in a remote first company, so I don't have those water cooler conversations that might happen more naturally. Um, so I spend a lot of time just, like, trying to ask personal questions without it being too invasive.

Matt 3:43 Right. s infrastructure whatsoever. It it's it's a foreign word in the space. What did you do first? I'm so curious.

Ashley 1:44 Yeah. It's a great question. Um, and, you know, I think a natural inclination when you get into any new role is to hit the ground running and show impact immediately.

Matt 1:54 Yeah.

Ashley 1:54 And that is very important. But there's something I I learned when I was starting at ASICS, um, which is to to listen before you do anything. And so what I did at at resident and have done in previous roles is what I call a listening tour, and it's spending my time doing three very distinct things. One is getting to know the business. So I think one of the misconceptions with consumer insights is it's all about understanding the consumer, being a champion for the consumer, and helping people become more consumer centric, which it absolutely is. But that only works if you understand how the business makes money and why the business exists. And so good insights live at that intersection of consumer needs and business needs. And so to just jump in and try to create impact right away without understanding the business, you're you're gonna set yourself up for failure. So I spend as much time as I can understanding why does the business exist? Where are we going, how do we make money, what mistakes have we made, and trying to hear that from all different perspectives because finance is gonna have a very different perspective from marketing, from, you know, the c suite. And along those lines is the second thing, which is building trust. And I think this is true in any role, but especially a market research type role. It you could have incredible data. You can be, like, the most most methodologically sound researcher. But if people don't trust your interpretation of that data, it doesn't matter. So I'm in a remote first company, so I don't have those water cooler conversations that might happen more naturally. Um, so I spend a lot of time just, like, trying to ask personal questions without it being too invasive.

Matt 3:43 Right. f people don't trust your interpretation of that data, it doesn't matter. So I'm in a remote first company, so I don't have those water cooler conversations that might happen more naturally. Um, so I spend a lot of time just, like, trying to ask personal questions without it being too invasive. Right.

Ashley 3:44 So people know, like, I have good intentions. I want I wanna make your job easier. Um, and a lot of that goes hand in hand with understanding the business. And people are really surprised when you're like, tell me about your job. What do you like? What keeps you up at night? Uh, you know, like, things like that. So the building trust piece is second on listening tour. And then the last piece is, like, what every good market researcher does, which is identifying gaps. So where does data exist that we're not currently connecting dots? Where does data not exist that we should be collecting data? What business problems are we trying to solve on a day to day basis that we're finding we're making these decisions without really knowing what we're doing and being able to start to say, okay. Here's some consistencies I'm seeing across different functions so that I can build a road map. And so, yes, impact is important, and especially at a early stage company. But I think listening is actually the first thing that should be done at any organization when you're standing up a a new function and insights specifically, and that's what I spent the first ninety days at resident doing.

Matt 4:48 It's it's such great advice. And, uh, really, especially given you were, at the start, presumably, an an army of one. Right? Like, that trust becomes even more important because you are the sage. Right? You you are the go to source. They have to have that that, like, foundational trust and and understanding in who you are as a professional if if they're gonna come to you and and you're gonna be able to work with them effectively. I think that's such a great call out.

Ashley 5:19 Yeah. Thank you.

Stephanie 5:21 Well and I think too the part that you said about being remote first makes that makes being intentional about that so much more important than

Matt 5:30 So true.

Stephanie 5:30 Than it would be because you would soak that up in an office setting Right. In a way that you just can't remotely. And I think I'm sort of attaching to this because Matt and I know it well and very well because we're remote first as well. So yeah. And we've we've had that challenge. f people don't trust your interpretation of that data, it doesn't matter. So I'm in a remote first company, so I don't have those water cooler conversations that might happen more naturally. Um, so I spend a lot of time just, like, trying to ask personal questions without it being too invasive.

Matt 3:43 Right.

Ashley 3:44 So people know, like, I have good intentions. I want I wanna make your job easier. Um, and a lot of that goes hand in hand with understanding the business. And people are really surprised when you're like, tell me about your job. What do you like? What keeps you up at night? Uh, you know, like, things like that. So the building trust piece is second on listening tour. And then the last piece is, like, what every good market researcher does, which is identifying gaps. So where does data exist that we're not currently connecting dots? Where does data not exist that we should be collecting data? What business problems are we trying to solve on a day to day basis that we're finding we're making these decisions without really knowing what we're doing and being able to start to say, okay. Here's some consistencies I'm seeing across different functions so that I can build a road map. And so, yes, impact is important, and especially at a early stage company. But I think listening is actually the first thing that should be done at any organization when you're standing up a a new function and insights specifically, and that's what I spent the first ninety days at resident doing.

Matt 4:48 It's it's such great advice. And, uh, really, especially given you were, at the start, presumably, an an army of one. Right? Like, that trust becomes even more important because you are the sage. Right? You you are the go to source. They have to have that that, like, foundational trust and and understanding in who you are as a professional if if they're gonna come to you and and you're gonna be able to work with them effectively. I think that's such a great call out.

Ashley 5:19 Yeah. Thank you.

Stephanie 5:21 Well and I think too the part that you said about being remote first makes that makes being intentional about that so much more important than

Matt 5:30 So true.

Stephanie 5:30 Than it would be because you would soak that up in an office setting Right. In a way that you just can't remotely. And I think I'm sort of attaching to this because Matt and I know it well and very well because we're remote first as well. So yeah. And we've we've had that challenge. tt: So true. Than it would be because you would soak that up in an office setting Right. In a way that you just can't remotely. And I think I'm sort of attaching to this because Matt and I know it well and very well because we're remote first as well. So yeah. And we've we've had that challenge.

Ashley 5:45 I I joked and, um, like, when I started insights at ASICS, I I joked that my team were, like, honeybees, like, little pollinators that would go from, like, sitting with one little pod for a day and hearing what they're working on to another little pod and bringing information to other teams. And when COVID happened, I was like, oh, man. Insights is really they're we're gonna get hit hard because we're not gonna be able to do that. Um, but I've been really surprised with how well it's actually worked at a company like Resident because it was remote first from the day that it was founded. So the over communication and sharing just happens really naturally.

Stephanie 6:22 Yeah. Definitely.

Matt 6:26 Um, wanted to go back to to one thing you said. I I know, uh, you know, after the the listening tour, uh, is complete, such a great first step. You probably had some sort of thing you were looking for, like an indicator. They're like, okay. You know, I've I've got the the groundwork, the legwork done that I I wanted to have done. Now it's time to to shift into execution mode. Uh, I know in those early phases, one of the one of the challenges insights professionals can face is, uh, their clients their their internal stakeholder clients are bringing to them questions that are great questions, but they're not quite ready for a research project yet. How do you personally kinda manage that that discussion? How do you get them to really articulate a research project, um, uh, based on what they're trying to achieve in their business? tt: So true.

Stephanie 5:30 Than it would be because you would soak that up in an office setting Right. In a way that you just can't remotely. And I think I'm sort of attaching to this because Matt and I know it well and very well because we're remote first as well. So yeah. And we've we've had that challenge.

Ashley 5:45 I I joked and, um, like, when I started insights at ASICS, I I joked that my team were, like, honeybees, like, little pollinators that would go from, like, sitting with one little pod for a day and hearing what they're working on to another little pod and bringing information to other teams. And when COVID happened, I was like, oh, man. Insights is really they're we're gonna get hit hard because we're not gonna be able to do that. Um, but I've been really surprised with how well it's actually worked at a company like Resident because it was remote first from the day that it was founded. So the over communication and sharing just happens really naturally.

Stephanie 6:22 Yeah. Definitely.

Matt 6:26 Um, wanted to go back to to one thing you said. I I know, uh, you know, after the the listening tour, uh, is complete, such a great first step. You probably had some sort of thing you were looking for, like an indicator. They're like, okay. You know, I've I've got the the groundwork, the legwork done that I I wanted to have done. Now it's time to to shift into execution mode. Uh, I know in those early phases, one of the one of the challenges insights professionals can face is, uh, their clients their their internal stakeholder clients are bringing to them questions that are great questions, but they're not quite ready for a research project yet. How do you personally kinda manage that that discussion? How do you get them to really articulate a research project, um, uh, based on what they're trying to achieve in their business? al stakeholder clients are bringing to them questions that are great questions, but they're not quite ready for a research project yet. How do you personally kinda manage that that discussion? How do you get them to really articulate a research project, um, uh, based on what they're trying to achieve in their business?

Ashley 7:17 Yeah. It's funny. I feel like people jump to solutions all the time. There there's like a there's a a quote. I think it's by Henry Ford about if I if I had asked people what they wanted, they'd say, uh, faster horse. Faster horse. It's like people assume that they want this thing, uh, that's a solution versus understanding what the problem is that they're really trying to solve. So I I treat my stakeholders the way that I would treat customers from a business perspective and really doing that sort of in-depth interview of, like, well, why? Well, why? Well, why? To get to a place where I'm like, what I'm hearing is you're trying to get this thing done, and this seems like the best solution. We're not quite there yet either because we don't currently have the data internally. We don't have the right tools. What I can do for you is whatever that solution is, to try to give them something to work with and then figure out how how important this is from an ROI perspective and then figuring out the steps that I need to take in order to get us there or bring other people to the table who might have that information that I now know because I did that listening tour, and they're just not connecting. So there's usually some sort of solve in that. It's just a matter of, um, really understanding what that problem is that they're trying to get to that they're throwing the research project at.

Matt 8:32 Do you ever have to, uh, change direction? Have you ever had to go back and say, you know, we we started down a certain path given the information that we had. Now I wanna I wanna go back and, you know, redo a piece of work or rethink my approach at all. Do do you find that occurs when you're in this kinda, you know, startup environment? al stakeholder clients are bringing to them questions that are great questions, but they're not quite ready for a research project yet. How do you personally kinda manage that that discussion? How do you get them to really articulate a research project, um, uh, based on what they're trying to achieve in their business?

Ashley 7:17 Yeah. It's funny. I feel like people jump to solutions all the time. There there's like a there's a a quote. I think it's by Henry Ford about if I if I had asked people what they wanted, they'd say, uh, faster horse. Faster horse. It's like people assume that they want this thing, uh, that's a solution versus understanding what the problem is that they're really trying to solve. So I I treat my stakeholders the way that I would treat customers from a business perspective and really doing that sort of in-depth interview of, like, well, why? Well, why? Well, why? To get to a place where I'm like, what I'm hearing is you're trying to get this thing done, and this seems like the best solution. We're not quite there yet either because we don't currently have the data internally. We don't have the right tools. What I can do for you is whatever that solution is, to try to give them something to work with and then figure out how how important this is from an ROI perspective and then figuring out the steps that I need to take in order to get us there or bring other people to the table who might have that information that I now know because I did that listening tour, and they're just not connecting. So there's usually some sort of solve in that. It's just a matter of, um, really understanding what that problem is that they're trying to get to that they're throwing the research project at.

Matt 8:32 Do you ever have to, uh, change direction? Have you ever had to go back and say, you know, we we started down a certain path given the information that we had. Now I wanna I wanna go back and, you know, redo a piece of work or rethink my approach at all. Do do you find that occurs when you're in this kinda, you know, startup environment? , uh, change direction? Have you ever had to go back and say, you know, we we started down a certain path given the information that we had. Now I wanna I wanna go back and, you know, redo a piece of work or rethink my approach at all. Do do you find that occurs when you're in this kinda, you know, startup environment?

Ashley 8:53 Yes. All the time. Um, this is this is probably one of the biggest challenges that, um, I I currently have at Residen is, one, there's it's amazing. We have we retain employees for years. The company's only been around since, like, 2016, '20 '17, but so many people have been there since the very beginning. And it's easily forgotten that, like, coming in as a new employee, you don't have this history. So So what my first few projects, I was like, great. Here's the sample. This is who we're gonna talk to. This is how we're gonna accomplish this thing. And then I would get into a place where we're about to launch, and I find out, well, the product that I'm trying to understand, maybe a different type of, like, feature analysis, it was a completely different product six months ago before I joined. But everyone just assumes that I know that because it's like everyone just knows they've been here for so long. So there's definitely been a a little bit of this, like, retroactive. Now I know what questions I need to ask going forward because some of the assumptions that are there. So that's just one example. But, certainly, there I I'm pretty humble when it comes to my work and being able to say, okay. I didn't know that. Let's go back. Let's fix this. Um, or, you know, if if someone thinks I should be doing something a different way, but I feel really strongly about it being able to talk through why the approach that I took was the right one, and maybe we just need to rethink the the problem.

Matt 10:16 Right. Right.

Stephanie 10:17 Makes sense. Uh, if we can switch gears for just a minute, I'm curious because I'm I'm assuming as as part of, like, building an insights function, you're also doing some hiring and creating some teams here. And, you know, for those of our audience who are, you know, entering the the the industry or are, you know, switching jobs in the industry, I would just love to know, you know, when you are hiring, is there ever a moment in a candidate interview where you're like, yes. This person gets it. And I'm curious if there's a kind of answer or a topic that signals the right mindset for you that might not come through in a resume per se. , uh, change direction? Have you ever had to go back and say, you know, we we started down a certain path given the information that we had. Now I wanna I wanna go back and, you know, redo a piece of work or rethink my approach at all. Do do you find that occurs when you're in this kinda, you know, startup environment?

Ashley 8:53 Yes. All the time. Um, this is this is probably one of the biggest challenges that, um, I I currently have at Residen is, one, there's it's amazing. We have we retain employees for years. The company's only been around since, like, 2016, '20 '17, but so many people have been there since the very beginning. And it's easily forgotten that, like, coming in as a new employee, you don't have this history. So So what my first few projects, I was like, great. Here's the sample. This is who we're gonna talk to. This is how we're gonna accomplish this thing. And then I would get into a place where we're about to launch, and I find out, well, the product that I'm trying to understand, maybe a different type of, like, feature analysis, it was a completely different product six months ago before I joined. But everyone just assumes that I know that because it's like everyone just knows they've been here for so long. So there's definitely been a a little bit of this, like, retroactive. Now I know what questions I need to ask going forward because some of the assumptions that are there. So that's just one example. But, certainly, there I I'm pretty humble when it comes to my work and being able to say, okay. I didn't know that. Let's go back. Let's fix this. Um, or, you know, if if someone thinks I should be doing something a different way, but I feel really strongly about it being able to talk through why the approach that I took was the right one, and maybe we just need to rethink the the problem.

Matt 10:16 Right. Right.

Stephanie 10:17 Makes sense. Uh, if we can switch gears for just a minute, I'm curious because I'm I'm assuming as as part of, like, building an insights function, you're also doing some hiring and creating some teams here. And, you know, for those of our audience who are, you know, entering the the the industry or are, you know, switching jobs in the industry, I would just love to know, you know, when you are hiring, is there ever a moment in a candidate interview where you're like, yes. This person gets it. And I'm curious if there's a kind of answer or a topic that signals the right mindset for you that might not come through in a resume per se. ching jobs in the industry, I would just love to know, you know, when you are hiring, is there ever a moment in a candidate interview where you're like, yes. This person gets it. And I'm curious if there's a kind of answer or a topic that signals the right mindset for you that might not come through in a resume per se.

Ashley 10:57 Yeah. Great question and super timely. I just had my first hire at residence start this week that I'm very excited about. Um, and, you know, when you post a a a market research related role at a remote first company at a business that's actually doing well. You're getting, like, the best candidates out there. Um, so we had hundreds of resumes. And like you said, it's sometimes hard to look at a resume and know right off the bat if if this person's gonna be a good fit. Um, so there are three things that I really probe on in interviews, um, that I think work well with me as, uh, as, uh, their leader and then with the teams that I'm interacting with on a day to day basis. One of those is a founder mentality. I want someone who, when there seems to be a wall that you're hitting, you're you're you are an architect of impact. You're finding a way around that wall and coming up with solutions. And I think this can you can find this in people who maybe have side businesses that aren't necessarily on their resume or hobbies or just have had these, like, life experiences in which they had to figure this stuff out. And I think that's a really important piece to being especially in a remote first company. So that's one of them. Um, I don't know if I'm allowed to say this, but the the, like, give a shit attitude. You can

Stephanie 12:18 say it.

Ashley 12:18 Okay. I don't think you can teach that. Like, I Yeah. We all work for money at the end of the day. Right? Like, we are trying to have a great livelihood. But there's something about being intrinsically motivated about your work that I want that person on my team because they are driven to uncover things. Um, one of the things I like to ask people is when is the last time you learned something new, and how did you go about learning it? Because I think it's so fascinating to think about how people go about, um, investigating things in their own personal life, um, because it translates so well to insights. So that's the second one. And then the third one would be, like, my own personal motto, which is strong opinions loosely held. So Yay.

Stephanie 13:04 We start with that ching jobs in the industry, I would just love to know, you know, when you are hiring, is there ever a moment in a candidate interview where you're like, yes. This person gets it. And I'm curious if there's a kind of answer or a topic that signals the right mindset for you that might not come through in a resume per se.

Ashley 10:57 Yeah. Great question and super timely. I just had my first hire at residence start this week that I'm very excited about. Um, and, you know, when you post a a a market research related role at a remote first company at a business that's actually doing well. You're getting, like, the best candidates out there. Um, so we had hundreds of resumes. And like you said, it's sometimes hard to look at a resume and know right off the bat if if this person's gonna be a good fit. Um, so there are three things that I really probe on in interviews, um, that I think work well with me as, uh, as, uh, their leader and then with the teams that I'm interacting with on a day to day basis. One of those is a founder mentality. I want someone who, when there seems to be a wall that you're hitting, you're you're you are an architect of impact. You're finding a way around that wall and coming up with solutions. And I think this can you can find this in people who maybe have side businesses that aren't necessarily on their resume or hobbies or just have had these, like, life experiences in which they had to figure this stuff out. And I think that's a really important piece to being especially in a remote first company. So that's one of them. Um, I don't know if I'm allowed to say this, but the the, like, give a shit attitude. You can

Stephanie 12:18 say it.

Ashley 12:18 Okay. I don't think you can teach that. Like, I Yeah. We all work for money at the end of the day. Right? Like, we are trying to have a great livelihood. But there's something about being intrinsically motivated about your work that I want that person on my team because they are driven to uncover things. Um, one of the things I like to ask people is when is the last time you learned something new, and how did you go about learning it? Because I think it's so fascinating to think about how people go about, um, investigating things in their own personal life, um, because it translates so well to insights. So that's the second one. And then the third one would be, like, my own personal motto, which is strong opinions loosely held. So Yay.

Stephanie 13:04 We start with that inating to think about how people go about, um, investigating things in their own personal life, um, because it translates so well to insights. So that's the second one. And then the third one would be, like, my own personal motto, which is strong opinions loosely held. So Yay. We start with that

Ashley 13:05 a lot. Make so, And I think it translates well in insights. I want someone who's gonna show up to the table with a strong hypothesis based off the information that they have already collected, but being willing to have their mind change when presented with new data. And I think it works really well on insight space, but I also think that when you start to cultivate a culture around that, people start to mirror that behavior. And so, you know, you have, like, people who've worked at the company for years, and they're like, this is the way it is. It's always been like this. And when you can start to showcase how that might change with data, they're more likely to do that too. So that's a another really big piece. So it's another question I usually ask is, like, when was the last time you changed your mind on something like a really big thing in your life? And just like to hear what people have to say. So it's a lot of, like, less work stuff and more philosophical stuff.

Stephanie 13:54 Oh, man. I love that, and I'm gonna steal those last two. I definitely try to ask about agency quite a lot because you're right. It's just in a remote environment that that sense of empowerment and agency is so important. But I I love those, writing them down.

Ashley 14:10 Awesome.

Stephanie 14:13 Um, okay. Switching topics again to the, I think, the one that Matt and I are really curious to kinda get into. We talk about this a lot with our guests, and I'm always just so interested to hear the unique perspectives. But, uh, the ever popular topic of executive buy in and how you get it, and I think, you know, because you're in this unique space of having built insights functions, uh, what's different about earning executive buy in when you come in in that way, when you're doing it the first time? Um, have you developed any kind of go to strategies for for getting leaders to genuinely invest insights. Yeah. inating to think about how people go about, um, investigating things in their own personal life, um, because it translates so well to insights. So that's the second one. And then the third one would be, like, my own personal motto, which is strong opinions loosely held. So Yay. We start with that

Ashley 13:05 a lot. Make so, And I think it translates well in insights. I want someone who's gonna show up to the table with a strong hypothesis based off the information that they have already collected, but being willing to have their mind change when presented with new data. And I think it works really well on insight space, but I also think that when you start to cultivate a culture around that, people start to mirror that behavior. And so, you know, you have, like, people who've worked at the company for years, and they're like, this is the way it is. It's always been like this. And when you can start to showcase how that might change with data, they're more likely to do that too. So that's a another really big piece. So it's another question I usually ask is, like, when was the last time you changed your mind on something like a really big thing in your life? And just like to hear what people have to say. So it's a lot of, like, less work stuff and more philosophical stuff.

Stephanie 13:54 Oh, man. I love that, and I'm gonna steal those last two. I definitely try to ask about agency quite a lot because you're right. It's just in a remote environment that that sense of empowerment and agency is so important. But I I love those, writing them down.

Ashley 14:10 Awesome.

Stephanie 14:13 Um, okay. Switching topics again to the, I think, the one that Matt and I are really curious to kinda get into. We talk about this a lot with our guests, and I'm always just so interested to hear the unique perspectives. But, uh, the ever popular topic of executive buy in and how you get it, and I think, you know, because you're in this unique space of having built insights functions, uh, what's different about earning executive buy in when you come in in that way, when you're doing it the first time? Um, have you developed any kind of go to strategies for for getting leaders to genuinely invest insights. Yeah. think, you know, because you're in this unique space of having built insights functions, uh, what's different about earning executive buy in when you come in in that way, when you're doing it the first time? Um, have you developed any kind of go to strategies for for getting leaders to genuinely invest insights. Yeah.

Ashley 14:48 Um, it's interesting because my experience at ASICS is very different from my experience at resident. In that at ASICS, I I was already working there. I was in a marketing team and was like, I'm getting these marketing briefs where people they're not developed off insights. It's like sell sell running shoes to runners. It's like, you to to create a great marketing campaign, there has to be some insight baked in there. So they already knew who I was, but it was like, hey. I have this great idea, and here's what it looks like. Versus a resident, there's a job posting. Someone already sold that idea in that insights is an important function, and we should have this. Regardless of those two things, the thing that I found works best for executive buying is understanding who your sponsors are and who your skeptics are. Mhmm. So sponsors are people who maybe aren't on your team, maybe you don't interact with them much, but they are they believe in the mission. Room. And a lot of times on the executive team, you're not gonna be in that room. So you need people who have that sphere of influence who are gonna go to that for you, um, which is very much the case at Asics. Um, I I had someone who once I put together a thirty day road map of like, hey. I believe in this, I found out that they were gonna try and hire someone to do it even though it was something that I wanted to do, but I was pretty junior. And someone in the room was like, no. We gotta give Ashley a shot. This was her idea, and she has the plan. Let's let's see how it goes.

Stephanie 16:21 And if she fails,

Ashley 16:22 we'll we'll find someone. But, like, that sponsor was everything for me.

Stephanie 16:26 Right. Um, think, you know, because you're in this unique space of having built insights functions, uh, what's different about earning executive buy in when you come in in that way, when you're doing it the first time? Um, have you developed any kind of go to strategies for for getting leaders to genuinely invest insights. Yeah.

Ashley 14:48 Um, it's interesting because my experience at ASICS is very different from my experience at resident. In that at ASICS, I I was already working there. I was in a marketing team and was like, I'm getting these marketing briefs where people they're not developed off insights. It's like sell sell running shoes to runners. It's like, you to to create a great marketing campaign, there has to be some insight baked in there. So they already knew who I was, but it was like, hey. I have this great idea, and here's what it looks like. Versus a resident, there's a job posting. Someone already sold that idea in that insights is an important function, and we should have this. Regardless of those two things, the thing that I found works best for executive buying is understanding who your sponsors are and who your skeptics are. Mhmm. So sponsors are people who maybe aren't on your team, maybe you don't interact with them much, but they are they believe in the mission. Room. And a lot of times on the executive team, you're not gonna be in that room. So you need people who have that sphere of influence who are gonna go to that for you, um, which is very much the case at Asics. Um, I I had someone who once I put together a thirty day road map of like, hey. I believe in this, I found out that they were gonna try and hire someone to do it even though it was something that I wanted to do, but I was pretty junior. And someone in the room was like, no. We gotta give Ashley a shot. This was her idea, and she has the plan. Let's let's see how it goes.

Stephanie 16:21 And if she fails,

Ashley 16:22 we'll we'll find someone. But, like, that sponsor was everything for me.

Stephanie 16:26 Right. Um, pretty junior. And someone in the room was like, no. We gotta give Ashley a shot. This was her idea, and she has the plan. Let's let's see how it goes. And if she fails,

Ashley 16:22 we'll we'll find someone. But, like, that sponsor was everything for me.

Stephanie 16:26 Right. Um,

Ashley 16:27 and then and similarly with with resident, it's like someone sold this idea, and who who sold that to the executive team? What did they tell them that this insights person needs to do? Because I should either, you know, make sure that I'm aligned with this person because they put their political capital on the line for this role, um, or at least make sure I'm not contradicting them. And then the skeptic piece is, like, there's always gonna be someone that had a bad experience with data or market research or, you know, things that's gonna slow down their process. And so who are those skeptics? Why are they skeptical? And can I meet them where they're at? And depending on how well I know this person or how well my sponsors might know this person, it's having a direct conversation of, hey. I'm trying to make your job easier. Like, what problems can I solve for you to show you that this is a good thing? Um, or just showing up with proof. And so it's a little bit of that investigative work, but having those two things really helps in the executive buy in and the upfront. Um, and then the other thing is just knowing what the executive team is focused on. So early stage company, like resident, uh, you know, it's like we are building the plane while we're flying it. We need insights fast. So a lot of times, I'm just inviting myself to meetings. I'm not waiting for someone to invite me in. I'm, like, hearing the debates, and I'm like, hey. It sounds like we don't really know what we're doing with this specific decision. Let me do a twenty four hour user test and come back to you with some directional feedback. And they're like, uh, I didn't know insights could do that. And you give them a lot of keys to that, and they're like, I want more. I want more. So that's very much the focus on in an early stage in getting executive buy in. And then on the flip side with a company like Wayfair, you are in a huge fish a huge sea of fish. Huge you are a small fish in a huge sea. And it's not necessarily about showing impact right away. It's about getting attention because there's so much other stuff going on.

Matt 18:32 Yeah.

Ashley 18:32 So it's making sure that insights are hard to ignore. And, again, part of that is having those sponsors who are gonna continue to layer up and layer up and have those spheres of influence.

Stephanie 18:43 So It's so interesting how you've I was just gonna say how you've, like, been able to adapt to different strategies for different companies that are just in different phases of their growth or, you know, or, you know, or just due to other factors. That's that's that's you know, you're speaking to the power of being adaptive too, which I think is really important.

Ashley 19:03 Yeah. Absolutely. pretty junior. And someone in the room was like, no. We gotta give Ashley a shot. This was her idea, and she has the plan. Let's let's see how it goes.

Stephanie 16:21 And if she fails,

Ashley 16:22 we'll we'll find someone. But, like, that sponsor was everything for me.

Stephanie 16:26 Right. Um,

Ashley 16:27 and then and similarly with with resident, it's like someone sold this idea, and who who sold that to the executive team? What did they tell them that this insights person needs to do? Because I should either, you know, make sure that I'm aligned with this person because they put their political capital on the line for this role, um, or at least make sure I'm not contradicting them. And then the skeptic piece is, like, there's always gonna be someone that had a bad experience with data or market research or, you know, things that's gonna slow down their process. And so who are those skeptics? Why are they skeptical? And can I meet them where they're at? And depending on how well I know this person or how well my sponsors might know this person, it's having a direct conversation of, hey. I'm trying to make your job easier. Like, what problems can I solve for you to show you that this is a good thing? Um, or just showing up with proof. And so it's a little bit of that investigative work, but having those two things really helps in the executive buy in and the upfront. Um, and then the other thing is just knowing what the executive team is focused on. So early stage company, like resident, uh, you know, it's like we are building the plane while we're flying it. We need insights fast. So a lot of times, I'm just inviting myself to meetings. I'm not waiting for someone to invite me in. I'm, like, hearing the debates, and I'm like, hey. It sounds like we don't really know what we're doing with this specific decision. Let me do a twenty four hour user test and come back to you with some directional feedback. And they're like, uh, I didn't know insights could do that. And you give them a lot of keys to that, and they're like, I want more. I want more. So that's very much the focus on in an early stage in getting executive buy in. And then on the flip side with a company like Wayfair, you are in a huge fish a huge sea of fish. Huge you are a small fish in a huge sea. And it's not necessarily about showing impact right away. It's about getting attention because there's so much other stuff going on.

Matt 18:32 Yeah.

Ashley 18:32 So it's making sure that insights are hard to ignore. And, again, part of that is having those sponsors who are gonna continue to layer up and layer up and have those spheres of influence.

Stephanie 18:43 So It's so interesting how you've I was just gonna say how you've, like, been able to adapt to different strategies for different companies that are just in different phases of their growth or, you know, or, you know, or just due to other factors. That's that's that's you know, you're speaking to the power of being adaptive too, which I think is really important.

Ashley 19:03 Yeah. Absolutely. to adapt to different strategies for different companies that are just in different phases of their growth or, you know, or, you know, or just due to other factors. That's that's that's you know, you're speaking to the power of being adaptive too, which I think is really important. Yeah. Absolutely.

Matt 19:05 I'm so curious, like, you know, without giving away your trade secrets, you know, your your personal trade secrets that have worked for you, what does your your strategy look like for recruiting those sponsors skeptics? I mean, I I know I I sat in a role where where that was everything as well in a prior life, um, in an entrepreneurial space where, you know, we had to we we gave a lot of thought about to we gave a lot of thought to who we were spending time trying to win over, uh, you know, selfishly because of, like, where they sat in the position or whether we thought, like, they were philosophically aligned with our mission. You know? Is it stuff like that? How how do you really how do you frame the message to to convince these folks that, you know, insights are are nonnegotiable and you you've gotta be on board with this mission because it's the right thing? What does that what does that message look like?

Ashley 20:02 I I think a big mistake that that people make in in that and trying to stand that up is talking about themselves. Here's everything that here's why Insights is great, and here's what I, like, what I can accomplish instead of flipping it and talking about them. Like, regardless of where you are in the organization, that you have goals, you have things that keep you up at night. And I think, especially if you're a more junior employee, you're afraid to ask the you know, your manager or the potential sponsor, like, how are you doing? Like, what are you working on? Yeah. And when you can start to understand that and people are are actually really excited to talk about themselves. And so when you can start to flip that conversation, it's easier to talk about insights in a way that's directly impactful to that sponsor. And then the light goes off for them of like, oh, wow. I didn't I didn't even think about this person helping me enable this. And if my goals are being achieved, how can you not want to sponsor this person or get them to have a seat at the table because they're making your life easier?

Matt 21:04 That's great. It goes back to the to the the listening tour again. Right?

Ashley 21:08 Yeah. And it it's funny. We do this with our customers. Right? Like, as market researchers,

Matt 21:12 we take true.

Ashley 21:13 Time. But we don't do it to to our internal stakeholders who are our customers as market researchers. to adapt to different strategies for different companies that are just in different phases of their growth or, you know, or, you know, or just due to other factors. That's that's that's you know, you're speaking to the power of being adaptive too, which I think is really important. Yeah. Absolutely.

Matt 19:05 I'm so curious, like, you know, without giving away your trade secrets, you know, your your personal trade secrets that have worked for you, what does your your strategy look like for recruiting those sponsors skeptics? I mean, I I know I I sat in a role where where that was everything as well in a prior life, um, in an entrepreneurial space where, you know, we had to we we gave a lot of thought about to we gave a lot of thought to who we were spending time trying to win over, uh, you know, selfishly because of, like, where they sat in the position or whether we thought, like, they were philosophically aligned with our mission. You know? Is it stuff like that? How how do you really how do you frame the message to to convince these folks that, you know, insights are are nonnegotiable and you you've gotta be on board with this mission because it's the right thing? What does that what does that message look like?

Ashley 20:02 I I think a big mistake that that people make in in that and trying to stand that up is talking about themselves. Here's everything that here's why Insights is great, and here's what I, like, what I can accomplish instead of flipping it and talking about them. Like, regardless of where you are in the organization, that you have goals, you have things that keep you up at night. And I think, especially if you're a more junior employee, you're afraid to ask the you know, your manager or the potential sponsor, like, how are you doing? Like, what are you working on? Yeah. And when you can start to understand that and people are are actually really excited to talk about themselves. And so when you can start to flip that conversation, it's easier to talk about insights in a way that's directly impactful to that sponsor. And then the light goes off for them of like, oh, wow. I didn't I didn't even think about this person helping me enable this. And if my goals are being achieved, how can you not want to sponsor this person or get them to have a seat at the table because they're making your life easier?

Matt 21:04 That's great. It goes back to the to the the listening tour again. Right?

Ashley 21:08 Yeah. And it it's funny. We do this with our customers. Right? Like, as market researchers,

Matt 21:12 we take true.

Ashley 21:13 Time. But we don't do it to to our internal stakeholders who are our customers as market researchers. es back to the to the the listening tour again. Right? Yeah. And it it's funny. We do this with our customers. Right? Like, as market researchers,

Matt 21:12 we take true.

Ashley 21:13 Time. But we don't do it to to our internal stakeholders who are our customers as market researchers.

Stephanie 21:19 Hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, kind of along that same vein and that well, no. Going back to something you said earlier, were you I I loved that you were like, so in twenty four hours, I turned this around. Um, so that might be part of your answer to this question, but you have mentioned on LinkedIn that you've woven insights into nearly every facet residents. How did you do that without becoming a bottleneck for decisions? And are there there and then kind of related to that, I'm curious if there are functions like CX created, maybe even finance that surprised you by how receptive they are to to insights and research. es back to the to the the listening tour again. Right?

Ashley 21:08 Yeah. And it it's funny. We do this with our customers. Right? Like, as market researchers,

Matt 21:12 we take true.

Ashley 21:13 Time. But we don't do it to to our internal stakeholders who are our customers as market researchers.

Stephanie 21:19 Hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, kind of along that same vein and that well, no. Going back to something you said earlier, were you I I loved that you were like, so in twenty four hours, I turned this around. Um, so that might be part of your answer to this question, but you have mentioned on LinkedIn that you've woven insights into nearly every facet residents. How did you do that without becoming a bottleneck for decisions? And are there there and then kind of related to that, I'm curious if there are functions like CX created, maybe even finance that surprised you by how receptive they are to to insights and research. you've woven insights into nearly every facet residents. How did you do that without becoming a bottleneck for decisions? And are there there and then kind of related to that, I'm curious if there are functions like CX created, maybe even finance that surprised you by how receptive they are to to insights and research.

Ashley 22:00 Yeah. I'm gonna be the most annoying person because I keep talking to this listening tour, but there's something to this. Right? Like a business functions well because things get handed off from one department to another, and there's a connective tissue. And the same can be true with insights in terms of not being a bottleneck. And it's making sure you're solving these problems that are going to impact more than one team, especially when you're starting out. So for example, we, um, we sell a lot of adjustable bed frames. And the the team came to me and said, like, we wanna understand why people are buying, um, this particular one over this particular bed frame. At the same time, I knew that we had a marketing strategy that was very heavily focused on adjustable bed frames, and we were testing all sorts of different messaging. And then at the same time, I knew that we were doing some site optimization around, um, the bed frame PDP. And so it was like, this is a perfect project to weave all of these things together and not be a bottleneck because I'm able to bring this information across all these teams and and actually bring them all to the table who might not be talking and so that we could move together and make sure that the insights are actually impactful across all these teams. Um, but then the second thing is making sure that your first party data is available to people to interpret on their own as we go. Um, this was a huge thing at ASICs as we were became a more established team of success metric, very much focused on where where people using our dashboards. And we use, like, you know, Tableau at the time and created these dashboards that we could track who's coming in and out. And that was like, I was only successful if people were able to get the data themselves. We're not quite there resident yet with consumer insights specifically, but it we're we're going to get there, and that will also help not be a bottleneck. Um, and then the last thing is I try to rate all my decks as a story. So at ASICs, I established this, like, 15 slide deck rule because I think people tend to tune out after that. And if every single slide is has a so what on it, there's only so much. So what I mean, you can do

Stephanie 24:09 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley 24:09 Like, this is too much. So, um, I want people to be able to open a deck when I'm not in the room and re just read the headlines and know why does this like, what is the story that I'm getting from this deck? And then all the data, the supporting data, and, like, minor details are underneath. But that also allows it so that I'm not a bottleneck because I don't have to be in the room. They can just read the deck and know exactly what the takeaways are.

Stephanie 24:33 Very nice. you've woven insights into nearly every facet residents. How did you do that without becoming a bottleneck for decisions? And are there there and then kind of related to that, I'm curious if there are functions like CX created, maybe even finance that surprised you by how receptive they are to to insights and research.

Ashley 22:00 Yeah. I'm gonna be the most annoying person because I keep talking to this listening tour, but there's something to this. Right? Like a business functions well because things get handed off from one department to another, and there's a connective tissue. And the same can be true with insights in terms of not being a bottleneck. And it's making sure you're solving these problems that are going to impact more than one team, especially when you're starting out. So for example, we, um, we sell a lot of adjustable bed frames. And the the team came to me and said, like, we wanna understand why people are buying, um, this particular one over this particular bed frame. At the same time, I knew that we had a marketing strategy that was very heavily focused on adjustable bed frames, and we were testing all sorts of different messaging. And then at the same time, I knew that we were doing some site optimization around, um, the bed frame PDP. And so it was like, this is a perfect project to weave all of these things together and not be a bottleneck because I'm able to bring this information across all these teams and and actually bring them all to the table who might not be talking and so that we could move together and make sure that the insights are actually impactful across all these teams. Um, but then the second thing is making sure that your first party data is available to people to interpret on their own as we go. Um, this was a huge thing at ASICs as we were became a more established team of success metric, very much focused on where where people using our dashboards. And we use, like, you know, Tableau at the time and created these dashboards that we could track who's coming in and out. And that was like, I was only successful if people were able to get the data themselves. We're not quite there resident yet with consumer insights specifically, but it we're we're going to get there, and that will also help not be a bottleneck. Um, and then the last thing is I try to rate all my decks as a story. So at ASICs, I established this, like, 15 slide deck rule because I think people tend to tune out after that. And if every single slide is has a so what on it, there's only so much. So what I mean, you can do

Stephanie 24:09 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ashley 24:09 Like, this is too much. So, um, I want people to be able to open a deck when I'm not in the room and re just read the headlines and know why does this like, what is the story that I'm getting from this deck? And then all the data, the supporting data, and, like, minor details are underneath. But that also allows it so that I'm not a bottleneck because I don't have to be in the room. They can just read the deck and know exactly what the takeaways are.

Stephanie 24:33 Very nice. story that I'm getting from this deck? And then all the data, the supporting data, and, like, minor details are underneath. But that also allows it so that I'm not a bottleneck because I don't have to be in the room. They can just read the deck and know exactly what the takeaways are. Very nice.

Matt 24:34 It's so true. Yeah. We we've been having a lot of conversations about storytelling and sort of the the reemergence of it as a as a, you know, a a fashionable topic among our peers in the industry, especially in the age of, you know, technological revolution. Like, what is the role of the person? That is I think you're you're you hit the nail on the head. It is so critical to have that ability to make a story stick in as few words as possible, uh, so that you're right. That way, you don't have to be there. The the deck speaks for itself. It's no longer a speaking deck. It is it is the story, you know, beginning to end.

Ashley 25:14 Yeah. It makes

Matt 25:14 a lot of sense. Um, going after more of your trade secrets. Uh, I know another challenge that that often comes up, especially in a in a role, um, that might be new to senior executives is you're gonna bring information that maybe they don't want to see, or it challenges, um, you know, uh, preconceptions or it challenges the status quo. Um, what is your personal approach to dealing with those situations as they arise?

Ashley 25:51 Yeah. And every marketers every market researcher has this challenge, right, at some point or another. Um, but it's the same thing that I was just talking about with, like, a customer, a customer who's really frustrated by an experience on the site or a product. It's understanding why they're frustrated by it. And a big thing, like I said, is there there's people who've been at resident for years. And so there's a lot of, like, I tried we've tried this before and it didn't work. And there's so many things that can come with that context. What did you try? Was this the exact problem you're trying to solve? There's so many other pieces to the puzzle than just no. And so having that sort of in-depth interview again of, like, why is this sitting uncom like, why is this uncomfortable for you? Like, what's not sitting well? Is it the solution? Is it the problem? Do you not believe the data? And getting to a place where where you know, maybe I was wrong. Maybe I u used the wrong sample or something like that and can be humble and admit when I'm wrong and then go back and find something. And maybe it's the same, so we're back in the same place. Right. But being able to understand what that friction point is so that we can break through together, um, and also being able to break through it together. It's like this problem is still gonna exist whether or not you believe this data. So how do we solve this in a way that feels more comfortable for you? Um, and then the last thing is, like, if they still don't get it, making them go through the experience themselves. And

Stephanie 27:15 Nice. Yeah. Like, there is Yeah. story that I'm getting from this deck? And then all the data, the supporting data, and, like, minor details are underneath. But that also allows it so that I'm not a bottleneck because I don't have to be in the room. They can just read the deck and know exactly what the takeaways are. Very nice.

Matt 24:34 It's so true. Yeah. We we've been having a lot of conversations about storytelling and sort of the the reemergence of it as a as a, you know, a a fashionable topic among our peers in the industry, especially in the age of, you know, technological revolution. Like, what is the role of the person? That is I think you're you're you hit the nail on the head. It is so critical to have that ability to make a story stick in as few words as possible, uh, so that you're right. That way, you don't have to be there. The the deck speaks for itself. It's no longer a speaking deck. It is it is the story, you know, beginning to end.

Ashley 25:14 Yeah. It makes

Matt 25:14 a lot of sense. Um, going after more of your trade secrets. Uh, I know another challenge that that often comes up, especially in a in a role, um, that might be new to senior executives is you're gonna bring information that maybe they don't want to see, or it challenges, um, you know, uh, preconceptions or it challenges the status quo. Um, what is your personal approach to dealing with those situations as they arise?

Ashley 25:51 Yeah. And every marketers every market researcher has this challenge, right, at some point or another. Um, but it's the same thing that I was just talking about with, like, a customer, a customer who's really frustrated by an experience on the site or a product. It's understanding why they're frustrated by it. And a big thing, like I said, is there there's people who've been at resident for years. And so there's a lot of, like, I tried we've tried this before and it didn't work. And there's so many things that can come with that context. What did you try? Was this the exact problem you're trying to solve? There's so many other pieces to the puzzle than just no. And so having that sort of in-depth interview again of, like, why is this sitting uncom like, why is this uncomfortable for you? Like, what's not sitting well? Is it the solution? Is it the problem? Do you not believe the data? And getting to a place where where you know, maybe I was wrong. Maybe I u used the wrong sample or something like that and can be humble and admit when I'm wrong and then go back and find something. And maybe it's the same, so we're back in the same place. Right. But being able to understand what that friction point is so that we can break through together, um, and also being able to break through it together. It's like this problem is still gonna exist whether or not you believe this data. So how do we solve this in a way that feels more comfortable for you? Um, and then the last thing is, like, if they still don't get it, making them go through the experience themselves. And

Stephanie 27:15 Nice. Yeah. Like, there is Yeah. ke this problem is still gonna exist whether or not you believe this data. So how do we solve this in a way that feels more comfortable for you? Um, and then the last thing is, like, if they still don't get it, making them go through the experience themselves. And Nice. Yeah. Like, there is Yeah.

Ashley 27:16 There is this problem we had at ASICs with our returns, and we were we were losing customers in the return cycle. And our LTV was going down, but people weren't looking at it as a revenue driver, so it continued to get pushed on the back burner.

Matt 27:30 Right.

Ashley 27:30 We kept going to the executive team with user interviews and data. I'm like, come on. Why don't you see this? But it just wasn't a priority until we made all of them buy shoes and try to return them. Return them. And then they're like, oh, yeah. Okay. This this is horrible. We gotta fix it. That's great.

Matt 27:47 Yeah. It's so true. I I think there's like a there's like a Toyota Way principle that speaks to that. The importance of of going and seeing for yourself is is transformative.

Ashley 27:56 Yeah.

Stephanie 27:57 Definitely. Uh, and maybe more in the realm of trade secrets. I don't know. But, um, um, I'm curious, uh, you know, a a resident is a portfolio of of different mattress brands. And I'm really curious, I think, because, you know, I do consumer insights, you do consumer insights about the kind of, you know, potentially meaty, uh, analysis and and research need that's that's probably there around ensuring that these are well differentiated and that they have different ideal customer profiles and and things like that. Is that something that you're working on there that you are yeah. Tell us more about kind of that process if you if you've done that kind of work. ke this problem is still gonna exist whether or not you believe this data. So how do we solve this in a way that feels more comfortable for you? Um, and then the last thing is, like, if they still don't get it, making them go through the experience themselves. And Nice. Yeah. Like, there is Yeah.

Ashley 27:16 There is this problem we had at ASICs with our returns, and we were we were losing customers in the return cycle. And our LTV was going down, but people weren't looking at it as a revenue driver, so it continued to get pushed on the back burner.

Matt 27:30 Right.

Ashley 27:30 We kept going to the executive team with user interviews and data. I'm like, come on. Why don't you see this? But it just wasn't a priority until we made all of them buy shoes and try to return them. Return them. And then they're like, oh, yeah. Okay. This this is horrible. We gotta fix it. That's great.

Matt 27:47 Yeah. It's so true. I I think there's like a there's like a Toyota Way principle that speaks to that. The importance of of going and seeing for yourself is is transformative.

Ashley 27:56 Yeah.

Stephanie 27:57 Definitely. Uh, and maybe more in the realm of trade secrets. I don't know. But, um, um, I'm curious, uh, you know, a a resident is a portfolio of of different mattress brands. And I'm really curious, I think, because, you know, I do consumer insights, you do consumer insights about the kind of, you know, potentially meaty, uh, analysis and and research need that's that's probably there around ensuring that these are well differentiated and that they have different ideal customer profiles and and things like that. Is that something that you're working on there that you are yeah. Tell us more about kind of that process if you if you've done that kind of work. research need that's that's probably there around ensuring that these are well differentiated and that they have different ideal customer profiles and and things like that. Is that something that you're working on there that you are yeah. Tell us more about kind of that process if you if you've done that kind of work.

Ashley 28:39 Yeah. Absolutely. It's it's more work that's on the horizon than work that's currently being done. Um, well, I shouldn't say that. We we're standing up a lot of, um, foundational research. Um, we're we're setting up a lot of the foundation right now. So having some always on surveys, some always on customer interviews through some amazing AI tools to start to understand who these customers are. We have incredible founders who this is their third, I believe, successful company. And so they know how to create good products. And we've done a good job with differentiation in terms of, like, materials, but we don't necessarily know who the different buyers are from an intimate level. So starting to understand that will help us from a personalization perspective on-site, a marketing perspective, and then also leaning into new brands because that's something that one of the things I love about Resonant is we're not afraid to stand up a new brand on a whim and see if there is any attraction. So, um, being able to understand who we currently serve really well, how do we serve them better, where is their white space that we should be leaning into. Um, and then, again, making sure that our brands are differentiated enough as you mentioned that, uh, we're not cannibalizing our own brand. So Right. That work is being stood up as we speak, and I'm really excited because it's like it feels you know? Like, again, I'm intrinsically motivated by this stuff. So I feel like I'm, like, bringing

Stephanie 30:03 Easter

Ashley 30:04 basket to the team. Like, look at this look at this piece of information. Yeah. Get with it.

Stephanie 30:09 It's so vital, right, to to so many different areas of and and the go to market process more generally. So absolutely.

Matt 30:17 So you're in a really cool space. Uh, you know, resident is direct to consumer. It's remote first. You have this evolving consumer landscape. Um, one question we we often like to ask is, have you ever had an insight come through any of your projects that just took you completely by surprise? Um, you know, it's totally unexpected, uh, that really made you change, you know, the way you were thinking about a particular problem. research need that's that's probably there around ensuring that these are well differentiated and that they have different ideal customer profiles and and things like that. Is that something that you're working on there that you are yeah. Tell us more about kind of that process if you if you've done that kind of work.

Ashley 28:39 Yeah. Absolutely. It's it's more work that's on the horizon than work that's currently being done. Um, well, I shouldn't say that. We we're standing up a lot of, um, foundational research. Um, we're we're setting up a lot of the foundation right now. So having some always on surveys, some always on customer interviews through some amazing AI tools to start to understand who these customers are. We have incredible founders who this is their third, I believe, successful company. And so they know how to create good products. And we've done a good job with differentiation in terms of, like, materials, but we don't necessarily know who the different buyers are from an intimate level. So starting to understand that will help us from a personalization perspective on-site, a marketing perspective, and then also leaning into new brands because that's something that one of the things I love about Resonant is we're not afraid to stand up a new brand on a whim and see if there is any attraction. So, um, being able to understand who we currently serve really well, how do we serve them better, where is their white space that we should be leaning into. Um, and then, again, making sure that our brands are differentiated enough as you mentioned that, uh, we're not cannibalizing our own brand. So Right. That work is being stood up as we speak, and I'm really excited because it's like it feels you know? Like, again, I'm intrinsically motivated by this stuff. So I feel like I'm, like, bringing

Stephanie 30:03 Easter

Ashley 30:04 basket to the team. Like, look at this look at this piece of information. Yeah. Get with it.

Stephanie 30:09 It's so vital, right, to to so many different areas of and and the go to market process more generally. So absolutely.

Matt 30:17 So you're in a really cool space. Uh, you know, resident is direct to consumer. It's remote first. You have this evolving consumer landscape. Um, one question we we often like to ask is, have you ever had an insight come through any of your projects that just took you completely by surprise? Um, you know, it's totally unexpected, uh, that really made you change, you know, the way you were thinking about a particular problem. this evolving consumer landscape. Um, one question we we often like to ask is, have you ever had an insight come through any of your projects that just took you completely by surprise? Um, you know, it's totally unexpected, uh, that really made you change, you know, the way you were thinking about a particular problem.

Ashley 30:44 Yeah. Um, this is this was something that I realized, I think, in the interview process as I started talking. So it's not really an insight from market research, but my own just talking about the challenges that resident had, um, was the realization that the mattress industry and the footwear industry are actually they mirror one another. You have this product that people typically wanna feel in in store, and we're trying to use them to buy online. And you've got your, like, sleep technologists. You've got your elite runners who understand when I throw, like, PCM on a on a mattress website, they understand what that means from a scientific perspective. When I throw a pronation on a footwear website, they know what that means on an intimate basis, but that's not the majority of your customer. Right. And so Right. Who are you talking to? What's the halo effect if you talk to that, you know, serious person down to the more generalist? Or should you be talking to a generalist and, uh, still make sure your your elite athlete, your elite sleeper, if you will, is getting what they need? Um, how do you make the return process simple? There's so many parallels, including foam in shoes and foam in mattresses. And so it was really fascinating to me when I started getting into the challenges that these two brands, ASICS and Resident, had and just the parallels between the two.

Matt 32:08 It's probably really helpful. And I know a lot of times too for, like, for ideation, having a a parallel, uh, you know, sort of a metaphor to refer back to can be so helpful. Right?

Ashley 32:18 Oh, yeah. I mean, I like, now, when I'm doing some user experience research, I'm bringing in footwear sites being like, let's shop this site and see what this is like because there's gotta be something. Right? Like, a shoe guide versus a a mattress guide. Those things are similar.

Stephanie 32:34 Yes. I love that.

Matt 32:35 Aspire to be an elite sleeper or

Stephanie 32:37 something. Seriously. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I wouldn't refer to myself as an elite runner, but I will say I've always always always been an Asics diehard and as a runner. So love that you have that background. I was very curious to to get start to you today. So Anyway, I still make

Ashley 32:55 foot contact before eye contact. Yeah.

Stephanie 33:00 That's great. Um, well, to wrap this up and kinda close us out of this part of the interview, uh, something we like to ask a lot of our guests, Ashley, is what's one piece of advice that you would offer to someone who's just starting out in consumer insights? this evolving consumer landscape. Um, one question we we often like to ask is, have you ever had an insight come through any of your projects that just took you completely by surprise? Um, you know, it's totally unexpected, uh, that really made you change, you know, the way you were thinking about a particular problem.

Ashley 30:44 Yeah. Um, this is this was something that I realized, I think, in the interview process as I started talking. So it's not really an insight from market research, but my own just talking about the challenges that resident had, um, was the realization that the mattress industry and the footwear industry are actually they mirror one another. You have this product that people typically wanna feel in in store, and we're trying to use them to buy online. And you've got your, like, sleep technologists. You've got your elite runners who understand when I throw, like, PCM on a on a mattress website, they understand what that means from a scientific perspective. When I throw a pronation on a footwear website, they know what that means on an intimate basis, but that's not the majority of your customer. Right. And so Right. Who are you talking to? What's the halo effect if you talk to that, you know, serious person down to the more generalist? Or should you be talking to a generalist and, uh, still make sure your your elite athlete, your elite sleeper, if you will, is getting what they need? Um, how do you make the return process simple? There's so many parallels, including foam in shoes and foam in mattresses. And so it was really fascinating to me when I started getting into the challenges that these two brands, ASICS and Resident, had and just the parallels between the two.

Matt 32:08 It's probably really helpful. And I know a lot of times too for, like, for ideation, having a a parallel, uh, you know, sort of a metaphor to refer back to can be so helpful. Right?

Ashley 32:18 Oh, yeah. I mean, I like, now, when I'm doing some user experience research, I'm bringing in footwear sites being like, let's shop this site and see what this is like because there's gotta be something. Right? Like, a shoe guide versus a a mattress guide. Those things are similar.

Stephanie 32:34 Yes. I love that.

Matt 32:35 Aspire to be an elite sleeper or

Stephanie 32:37 something. Seriously. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I wouldn't refer to myself as an elite runner, but I will say I've always always always been an Asics diehard and as a runner. So love that you have that background. I was very curious to to get start to you today. So Anyway, I still make

Ashley 32:55 foot contact before eye contact. Yeah.

Stephanie 33:00 That's great. Um, well, to wrap this up and kinda close us out of this part of the interview, uh, something we like to ask a lot of our guests, Ashley, is what's one piece of advice that you would offer to someone who's just starting out in consumer insights? oot contact before eye contact. Yeah. That's great. Um, well, to wrap this up and kinda close us out of this part of the interview, uh, something we like to ask a lot of our guests, Ashley, is what's one piece of advice that you would offer to someone who's just starting out in consumer insights?

Ashley 33:17 Um, I think I would say networking. So insights teams tend to be, um, smaller teams compared to other function and functions and organizations. And knowing other people in the insights world or market research world is so vital to your success as a market researcher. I can't tell you how many times as I was starting at ASICS and even at resident that I've called someone that I've met in industry and been like, hey. Here's this challenge that I'm having. What tools are you using? What methodologies? Um, you know, even from an executive buy in perspective, how did you convince someone to go along with this thing? And, uh, I find that the insights community is pretty small, but very helpful to one another. And so I'd say the more you can network before you actually need something, just like, hey. What are you working? Is Yeah. Much better. Because the other thing is, like, from a job perspective, you know, there are consumer insights jobs can be hard to find. So if you have these established relationships as a young professional, then you're gonna be fine going down the

Matt 34:25 road and keep going deeper in

Ashley 34:25 into insights because you're gonna have these people who want to work with you because they just know who you are. Um, so I think networking, networking, networking is the best thing you can do, um, and making sure you're providing value to other folks in the space

Stephanie 34:37 as well. That is great advice.

Matt 34:39 Great advice. Um, and my final question is, uh, of course, the crystal ball question. Mhmm. Uh, if you look forward over the next five years, what are the biggest changes you see coming down that are are gonna affect, you know, you, the way you work in your industry, but insights in general?

Ashley 34:59 Mhmm. It's hard it's hard not to talk about AI when you ask that question.

Matt 35:03 We made it. We made it through the whole conversate. We we won. We won the AI game today, guys.

Stephanie 35:09 The first time. oot contact before eye contact. Yeah. That's great. Um, well, to wrap this up and kinda close us out of this part of the interview, uh, something we like to ask a lot of our guests, Ashley, is what's one piece of advice that you would offer to someone who's just starting out in consumer insights?

Ashley 33:17 Um, I think I would say networking. So insights teams tend to be, um, smaller teams compared to other function and functions and organizations. And knowing other people in the insights world or market research world is so vital to your success as a market researcher. I can't tell you how many times as I was starting at ASICS and even at resident that I've called someone that I've met in industry and been like, hey. Here's this challenge that I'm having. What tools are you using? What methodologies? Um, you know, even from an executive buy in perspective, how did you convince someone to go along with this thing? And, uh, I find that the insights community is pretty small, but very helpful to one another. And so I'd say the more you can network before you actually need something, just like, hey. What are you working? Is Yeah. Much better. Because the other thing is, like, from a job perspective, you know, there are consumer insights jobs can be hard to find. So if you have these established relationships as a young professional, then you're gonna be fine going down the

Matt 34:25 road and keep going deeper in

Ashley 34:25 into insights because you're gonna have these people who want to work with you because they just know who you are. Um, so I think networking, networking, networking is the best thing you can do, um, and making sure you're providing value to other folks in the space

Stephanie 34:37 as well. That is great advice.

Matt 34:39 Great advice. Um, and my final question is, uh, of course, the crystal ball question. Mhmm. Uh, if you look forward over the next five years, what are the biggest changes you see coming down that are are gonna affect, you know, you, the way you work in your industry, but insights in general?

Ashley 34:59 Mhmm. It's hard it's hard not to talk about AI when you ask that question.

Matt 35:03 We made it. We made it through the whole conversate. We we won. We won the AI game today, guys.

Stephanie 35:09 The first time. u know, you, the way you work in your industry, but insights in general?

Ashley 34:59 Mhmm. It's hard it's hard not to talk about AI when you ask that question.

Matt 35:03 We made it. We made it through the whole conversate. We we won. We won the AI game today, guys.

Stephanie 35:09 The first time.

Ashley 35:11 Yeah. I I feel like purposely is like holding the AI word back. Um, but, like, we talked a little bit about the bottlenecking, and I think that it can be a big issue in insights, um, especially if a team doesn't especially if you're at a large organization and they don't know what consumer insights has to offer. I think AI and the decentralization of insights in organizations is going to continue to strengthen so that you can make sure that it's brought across every single piece of the organization whether you're at the table or not. And I think about this even in terms of, like, the the dashboards. It's like being able to ask a dashboard in the way you ask chat g p t, how would you interpret x y z thing with layering on three different types of first party data? And so bringing that to the table, I think that's gonna continue to evolve. Um, I'm excited because, you know, AI is making my job easier in a lot of ways, and I'm not as scared of it as I think other folks might be because of the empathy factor that we we talk about. Right. Like, the human aspect AI is not currently, replicating. So, um, I think it's just gonna continue to make market research easier in the terms of the task that we don't wanna do and make sure it's more accessible across the organizations.

Matt 36:27 I think it's a great outlook.

Stephanie 36:35 Uh, who does the closing? Do this part? Yeah.

Matt 36:38 How do

Stephanie 36:38 we do

Matt 36:38 this part?

Stephanie 36:39 There there's no closing on here.

Matt 36:43 Let's see. So What

Stephanie 36:44 do we do?

Matt 36:47 Do because we transitioned to the undercurrent. How do we do that? How do we transition to

Ashley 36:52 the undercurrent? Interested.

Stephanie 36:55 The very first one. Done. We'll put that in there. There we go.

Ashley 36:59 Uh, do

Stephanie 37:00 we do the undercurrent after that, or, like, do we do we thank Ashley for her time and say it's been a really insightful conversation and then we do undercurrent, or do we do undercurrent and then do that part? Do you remember?

Matt 37:12 I think they can

Stephanie 37:13 follow-up with the fifteenth time we've done this. So There's

Matt 37:16 something is different about this this interview sheet that we're just now recognizing, but I can't put my finger on it. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I I think they can cut it in

Stephanie 37:25 any way whichever way. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. That sounds perfect. Matt, do you wanna intro the undercurrent, and then I will thank Ashley at the end. Does that work?

Matt 37:53 Okay. Sure. Yeah. That'll work. Do you want me and then do you want me to do my bit first and then you do your bit and

Stephanie 37:59 then she

Matt 37:59 does her bit? Alright. u know, you, the way you work in your industry, but insights in general?

Ashley 34:59 Mhmm. It's hard it's hard not to talk about AI when you ask that question.

Matt 35:03 We made it. We made it through the whole conversate. We we won. We won the AI game today, guys.

Stephanie 35:09 The first time.

Ashley 35:11 Yeah. I I feel like purposely is like holding the AI word back. Um, but, like, we talked a little bit about the bottlenecking, and I think that it can be a big issue in insights, um, especially if a team doesn't especially if you're at a large organization and they don't know what consumer insights has to offer. I think AI and the decentralization of insights in organizations is going to continue to strengthen so that you can make sure that it's brought across every single piece of the organization whether you're at the table or not. And I think about this even in terms of, like, the the dashboards. It's like being able to ask a dashboard in the way you ask chat g p t, how would you interpret x y z thing with layering on three different types of first party data? And so bringing that to the table, I think that's gonna continue to evolve. Um, I'm excited because, you know, AI is making my job easier in a lot of ways, and I'm not as scared of it as I think other folks might be because of the empathy factor that we we talk about. Right. Like, the human aspect AI is not currently, replicating. So, um, I think it's just gonna continue to make market research easier in the terms of the task that we don't wanna do and make sure it's more accessible across the organizations.

Matt 36:27 I think it's a great outlook.

Stephanie 36:35 Uh, who does the closing? Do this part? Yeah.

Matt 36:38 How do

Stephanie 36:38 we do

Matt 36:38 this part?

Stephanie 36:39 There there's no closing on here.

Matt 36:43 Let's see. So What

Stephanie 36:44 do we do?

Matt 36:47 Do because we transitioned to the undercurrent. How do we do that? How do we transition to

Ashley 36:52 the undercurrent? Interested.

Stephanie 36:55 The very first one. Done. We'll put that in there. There we go.

Ashley 36:59 Uh, do

Stephanie 37:00 we do the undercurrent after that, or, like, do we do we thank Ashley for her time and say it's been a really insightful conversation and then we do undercurrent, or do we do undercurrent and then do that part? Do you remember?

Matt 37:12 I think they can

Stephanie 37:13 follow-up with the fifteenth time we've done this. So There's

Matt 37:16 something is different about this this interview sheet that we're just now recognizing, but I can't put my finger on it. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I I think they can cut it in

Stephanie 37:25 any way whichever way. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. That sounds perfect. Matt, do you wanna intro the undercurrent, and then I will thank Ashley at the end. Does that work?

Matt 37:53 Okay. Sure. Yeah. That'll work. Do you want me and then do you want me to do my bit first and then you do your bit and

Stephanie 37:59 then she

Matt 37:59 does her bit? Alright. s perfect. Matt, do you wanna intro the undercurrent, and then I will thank Ashley at the end. Does that work? Okay. Sure. Yeah. That'll work. Do you want me and then do you want me to do my bit first and then you do your bit and

Stephanie 37:59 then she

Matt 37:59 does her bit? Alright.

Stephanie 38:00 You go for it. Yeah.

Matt 38:01 Uh, great. Let me make sure I got it pulled up because mine's got I got details, uh, on mine. I've got Awara's website pulled up, so I need to pause my mattress shopping for the moment.

Stephanie 38:12 And let's s perfect. Matt, do you wanna intro the undercurrent, and then I will thank Ashley at the end. Does that work?

Matt 37:53 Okay. Sure. Yeah. That'll work. Do you want me and then do you want me to do my bit first and then you do your bit and

Stephanie 37:59 then she

Matt 37:59 does her bit? Alright.

Stephanie 38:00 You go for it. Yeah.

Matt 38:01 Uh, great. Let me make sure I got it pulled up because mine's got I got details, uh, on mine. I've got Awara's website pulled up, so I need to pause my mattress shopping for the moment.

Stephanie 38:12 And let's 00:37:59] Matt: does her bit? Alright. You go for it. Yeah.

Matt 38:01 Uh, great. Let me make sure I got it pulled up because mine's got I got details, uh, on mine. I've got Awara's website pulled up, so I need to pause my mattress shopping for the moment.

Stephanie 38:12 And let's

Matt 38:13 see. Oh, no. Where'd it go? There we go. Okay. I don't I'm I'm always, like, I'm always really worried about, like, pronunciation. Like, oh, god. Don't don't get me mispronouncing a a word on tape. It's like my greatest fear. On tape. Okay. Alright. Now I am set up, but now oversize being weird. There we go. There we go. There we go. Okay. Um, alright. So I will intro the segment, then I'll go. Stephanie goes, then Ashley goes. Alright. Sounds good. Alright. So, uh, we have invited Ashley to join us for our, um, after show segment called The Undercurrent, which is where, again, we just sort of talk about something that is maybe tangentially, maybe directly, maybe indirectly related to, uh, our work and insights. And, uh, we just kinda nerd out a little bit about something that's, uh, that's interesting and and fascinating to us, um, lately. Mine is, uh, going back to a topic that, uh, I brought up, oh, a number of weeks ago. I'm I'm I've been on this kick, uh, looking into the idea of complexity theory, which is, uh, at a very high level, this concept that, uh, problems need to be evaluated before they are, um, pursued for a solution at a very high level. You need to make a distinction between whether a problem is simple or a problem is complex, and the ways you go about solving those problems is very different based on that very simple categorization. There's there's a whole lot more to it than that, but but it's got me thinking a lot about limitations and, uh, complexity in market research and the work that we do. Uh, and I was recommended a book called it's not a a new book. It came out in 2013 called Why Our Goals Are Best Achieved Indirectly by John Kaye, who's a British economist. I gave that a read, and I thought it was really interesting. So what he goes into is, um, really, we achieve complex goals, uh, more successfully by not pursuing them directly. Um, for example, companies that focus obsessively on maximizing shareholder value often fail, while those that prioritize things like innovation, customer experience, or culture end up being more profitable as a byproduct. And this is really interesting to me as a as a insights pro because it gets back to this question of what is measurable and what is not. And I I like things that sorta challenge me as a a quantitative, uh, you know, quantitative oriented research nerd who, like, wants to measure everything. I wanna put a metric on everything. And especially now that I'm in a position where doing a little bit more strategy, a little bit more building, it's really interesting to to have these ideas put in front of me that sorta, uh, uh, cause a, um, a bit of a transformation in my my thought process to take place. And, um, so I've I've been really enjoying that that this little exploration of, uh, of limitations of of sort of classical problem solving approaches. 00:37:59] Matt: does her bit? Alright.

Stephanie 38:00 You go for it. Yeah.

Matt 38:01 Uh, great. Let me make sure I got it pulled up because mine's got I got details, uh, on mine. I've got Awara's website pulled up, so I need to pause my mattress shopping for the moment.

Stephanie 38:12 And let's

Matt 38:13 see. Oh, no. Where'd it go? There we go. Okay. I don't I'm I'm always, like, I'm always really worried about, like, pronunciation. Like, oh, god. Don't don't get me mispronouncing a a word on tape. It's like my greatest fear. On tape. Okay. Alright. Now I am set up, but now oversize being weird. There we go. There we go. There we go. Okay. Um, alright. So I will intro the segment, then I'll go. Stephanie goes, then Ashley goes. Alright. Sounds good. Alright. So, uh, we have invited Ashley to join us for our, um, after show segment called The Undercurrent, which is where, again, we just sort of talk about something that is maybe tangentially, maybe directly, maybe indirectly related to, uh, our work and insights. And, uh, we just kinda nerd out a little bit about something that's, uh, that's interesting and and fascinating to us, um, lately. Mine is, uh, going back to a topic that, uh, I brought up, oh, a number of weeks ago. I'm I'm I've been on this kick, uh, looking into the idea of complexity theory, which is, uh, at a very high level, this concept that, uh, problems need to be evaluated before they are, um, pursued for a solution at a very high level. You need to make a distinction between whether a problem is simple or a problem is complex, and the ways you go about solving those problems is very different based on that very simple categorization. There's there's a whole lot more to it than that, but but it's got me thinking a lot about limitations and, uh, complexity in market research and the work that we do. Uh, and I was recommended a book called it's not a a new book. It came out in 2013 called Why Our Goals Are Best Achieved Indirectly by John Kaye, who's a British economist. I gave that a read, and I thought it was really interesting. So what he goes into is, um, really, we achieve complex goals, uh, more successfully by not pursuing them directly. Um, for example, companies that focus obsessively on maximizing shareholder value often fail, while those that prioritize things like innovation, customer experience, or culture end up being more profitable as a byproduct. And this is really interesting to me as a as a insights pro because it gets back to this question of what is measurable and what is not. And I I like things that sorta challenge me as a a quantitative, uh, you know, quantitative oriented research nerd who, like, wants to measure everything. I wanna put a metric on everything. And especially now that I'm in a position where doing a little bit more strategy, a little bit more building, it's really interesting to to have these ideas put in front of me that sorta, uh, uh, cause a, um, a bit of a transformation in my my thought process to take place. And, um, so I've I've been really enjoying that that this little exploration of, uh, of limitations of of sort of classical problem solving approaches. ng, it's really interesting to to have these ideas put in front of me that sorta, uh, uh, cause a, um, a bit of a transformation in my my thought process to take place. And, um, so I've I've been really enjoying that that this little exploration of, uh, of limitations of of sort of classical problem solving approaches.

Stephanie 41:44 Love that. So jumping in from my perspective, um, little bit different. Uh, this is just a piece of news that got me thinking. I stumbled across, uh, the news earlier this week that OpenAI is, uh, I use this word because it was used in the article, quietly prototyping a social network. Um, it'll be a feed based platform built around AI generation. They're gonna start with images, likely expanding to text. And I have to say, like, of course, my first reaction was probably along the lines of, is this the tenth circle of hell? Are we just mashing up buzz concepts at this point? But the more I thought about it and read about it, uh, kinda two things emerged for me. One, I get the play strategically, of course. It does a few things for OpenAI. Um, they get that continuous high signal human data. They get native feedback loops for agents. They get first party context across things like taste and sentiment and behavior that they are getting in more of a third party right now. And it's also like a sandbox to really test how AI feels to people, not just how it performs. So I see a lot of, like even though it felt kinda crazy to me, I see a lot like it does make sense as a strategic play for them. On the consumer social side, I also started to think about how you know, we have these different eras in social. There is the profile era with, like, Facebook and Insta, uh, with identity driven content, and then the feed era with, uh, TikTok and Twitter, uh, the group chat era with, uh, like, Snap and Discord where it's, like, valuing intimacy and and small conversation.

Matt 43:21 Right.

Stephanie 43:22 And I feel like all of these phases kinda reflect the technology and the cultural issues of of their time. Not that they're not all of this time as well. But, yeah, and it seems like that maybe this next phase is is a bigger shift, of course, uh, but just another shift at the same time. And we're not just designing systems for humans anymore. Right? We're designing a network that will be built for cognitive collaboration and cocreation between humans and models. And, uh, maybe it's the agent era. Um, and so for me, you know, there's a little fear of the unknown there. Uh, but, uh, also, I have to say I'm a little bit excited the more that I read and thought about it. So

Matt 44:02 It is.

Stephanie 44:03 Yeah. Ashley, take us home. Oh, sorry. Sorry. ng, it's really interesting to to have these ideas put in front of me that sorta, uh, uh, cause a, um, a bit of a transformation in my my thought process to take place. And, um, so I've I've been really enjoying that that this little exploration of, uh, of limitations of of sort of classical problem solving approaches. Love that. So jumping in from my perspective, um, little bit different. Uh, this is just a piece of news that got me thinking. I stumbled across, uh, the news earlier this week that OpenAI is, uh, I use this word because it was used in the article, quietly prototyping a social network. Um, it'll be a feed based platform built around AI generation. They're gonna start with images, likely expanding to text. And I have to say, like, of course, my first reaction was probably along the lines of, is this the tenth circle of hell? Are we just mashing up buzz concepts at this point? But the more I thought about it and read about it, uh, kinda two things emerged for me. One, I get the play strategically, of course. It does a few things for OpenAI. Um, they get that continuous high signal human data. They get native feedback loops for agents. They get first party context across things like taste and sentiment and behavior that they are getting in more of a third party right now. And it's also like a sandbox to really test how AI feels to people, not just how it performs. So I see a lot of, like even though it felt kinda crazy to me, I see a lot like it does make sense as a strategic play for them. On the consumer social side, I also started to think about how you know, we have these different eras in social. There is the profile era with, like, Facebook and Insta, uh, with identity driven content, and then the feed era with, uh, TikTok and Twitter, uh, the group chat era with, uh, like, Snap and Discord where it's, like, valuing intimacy and and small conversation.

Matt 43:21 Right.

Stephanie 43:22 And I feel like all of these phases kinda reflect the technology and the cultural issues of of their time. Not that they're not all of this time as well. But, yeah, and it seems like that maybe this next phase is is a bigger shift, of course, uh, but just another shift at the same time. And we're not just designing systems for humans anymore. Right? We're designing a network that will be built for cognitive collaboration and cocreation between humans and models. And, uh, maybe it's the agent era. Um, and so for me, you know, there's a little fear of the unknown there. Uh, but, uh, also, I have to say I'm a little bit excited the more that I read and thought about it. So

Matt 44:02 It is.

Stephanie 44:03 Yeah. Ashley, take us home. Oh, sorry. Sorry. ns and models. And, uh, maybe it's the agent era. Um, and so for me, you know, there's a little fear of the unknown there. Uh, but, uh, also, I have to say I'm a little bit excited the more that I read and thought about it. So

Matt 44:02 It is.

Stephanie 44:03 Yeah. Ashley, take us home. Oh, sorry. Sorry.

Ashley 44:07 No. I was gonna say it's very interesting. It sort of makes me think about the whole syndicated, uh, data, the whole syndicated research, which is a topic for another day. But, uh, what I'm gonna share is something that's very near and dear to my heart, which is, um, actually about, um, how I took some of the the things that I learned through market research and actually brought my own company to life during the pandemic, which is my now side business. So I talk about the founder mentality a little bit, and I I brought it to life, um, with my sister. Uh, so during the pandemic, pretty much everyone I know, including myself, was struggling with anxiety, and it was hard to find something that would help in the middle of the night with that 3AM spiral of, you know, what's gonna happen next, that we thought this was gonna be two weeks, bring two months in, what's going on. Um, and I started to learn a lot more about, uh, cognitive behavioral therapy. I was a a psychology major in school. I thought I was gonna be a clinical psychologist, so I had some training in that. But I started thinking about it more through the lens of active participation and being able to do something to help when I was in that of reshaping, restructuring my, um, anxieties and found cognitive restructuring to be incredibly impactful. But I was having all these sheets of paper around my house, which during the pandemic was fine. But if I was traveling again and out with friends, I didn't want that to be something that I had to take with me. And so I went on Amazon, as anyone does, and started searching for, uh, anxiety journals. And everything said anxiety journal in big letters or have, like, rainbows and butterflies, which certainly wasn't my style. So I called my sister who ironically also worked, uh, for Wayfair and but on the supply side and said, hey. Like, what if we created our own? What if we used this gap in the market? And the conversations I'm hearing my friends and I have, uh, it made something that was real and tangible for people to help them get out of this dark place at a during a dark time. I said, alright. We spent the next months designing, developing, talking to therapists, interviewing them, making sure that the product was sound, and then bought 500 and threw them up on Amazon and said, okay. Worst case scenario, everyone's getting anxiety. Turn off for the next five Christmases, and we'll be good. Right? Uh, but they sold out really quick. And since then, that was 2020. Um, my sister and I have sold over 75,000 journals. We've partnered with quite a few, um, nonprofits from suicide prevention to grief. Um, we've launched a second journal now, an ADHD journal, and our our focus is really on bringing tools that don't exist for people who are motivated but don't don't necessarily know what to do. So a lot of it's just listening to people in our own lives and starting to connect those dots of what challenges exist and then how do we solve these for people. So it's something that's near and dear to my heart, and, uh, hopefully, it helps someone too out there. ns and models. And, uh, maybe it's the agent era. Um, and so for me, you know, there's a little fear of the unknown there. Uh, but, uh, also, I have to say I'm a little bit excited the more that I read and thought about it. So

Matt 44:02 It is.

Stephanie 44:03 Yeah. Ashley, take us home. Oh, sorry. Sorry.

Ashley 44:07 No. I was gonna say it's very interesting. It sort of makes me think about the whole syndicated, uh, data, the whole syndicated research, which is a topic for another day. But, uh, what I'm gonna share is something that's very near and dear to my heart, which is, um, actually about, um, how I took some of the the things that I learned through market research and actually brought my own company to life during the pandemic, which is my now side business. So I talk about the founder mentality a little bit, and I I brought it to life, um, with my sister. Uh, so during the pandemic, pretty much everyone I know, including myself, was struggling with anxiety, and it was hard to find something that would help in the middle of the night with that 3AM spiral of, you know, what's gonna happen next, that we thought this was gonna be two weeks, bring two months in, what's going on. Um, and I started to learn a lot more about, uh, cognitive behavioral therapy. I was a a psychology major in school. I thought I was gonna be a clinical psychologist, so I had some training in that. But I started thinking about it more through the lens of active participation and being able to do something to help when I was in that of reshaping, restructuring my, um, anxieties and found cognitive restructuring to be incredibly impactful. But I was having all these sheets of paper around my house, which during the pandemic was fine. But if I was traveling again and out with friends, I didn't want that to be something that I had to take with me. And so I went on Amazon, as anyone does, and started searching for, uh, anxiety journals. And everything said anxiety journal in big letters or have, like, rainbows and butterflies, which certainly wasn't my style. So I called my sister who ironically also worked, uh, for Wayfair and but on the supply side and said, hey. Like, what if we created our own? What if we used this gap in the market? And the conversations I'm hearing my friends and I have, uh, it made something that was real and tangible for people to help them get out of this dark place at a during a dark time. I said, alright. We spent the next months designing, developing, talking to therapists, interviewing them, making sure that the product was sound, and then bought 500 and threw them up on Amazon and said, okay. Worst case scenario, everyone's getting anxiety. Turn off for the next five Christmases, and we'll be good. Right? Uh, but they sold out really quick. And since then, that was 2020. Um, my sister and I have sold over 75,000 journals. We've partnered with quite a few, um, nonprofits from suicide prevention to grief. Um, we've launched a second journal now, an ADHD journal, and our our focus is really on bringing tools that don't exist for people who are motivated but don't don't necessarily know what to do. So a lot of it's just listening to people in our own lives and starting to connect those dots of what challenges exist and then how do we solve these for people. So it's something that's near and dear to my heart, and, uh, hopefully, it helps someone too out there. motivated but don't don't necessarily know what to do. So a lot of it's just listening to people in our own lives and starting to connect those dots of what challenges exist and then how do we solve these for people. So it's something that's near and dear to my heart, and, uh, hopefully, it helps someone too out there.

Matt 47:03 That's amazing.

Stephanie 47:04 Love that. Yeah. That is really is amazing. And I love that you even took that sort of your your research inclination through the process of development, and we're like, I'm gonna do this the right way and sort of have the conversations that need to be had to make sure that this has good, like, product market fit, if you will. So

Ashley 47:20 Yeah.

Stephanie 47:21 Really, really cool stuff. Thanks. Um, well, Ashley, this conversation with you today has been an absolute pleasure. I loved getting to learn about sort of your approach to how to, you know, how you spin up an insights org and really how you create that buy in for yourself. And I if I take anything away personally, I'm gonna start having listening sessions. I've been here for several years, but it's it's not too late to start. So

Ashley 47:43 Yes. Great. I'm I love to hear that. Do them often. For sure.

Stephanie 47:47 For having me. Thanks so

Matt 47:53 much.

Stephanie 47:59 Alright. Oh. Yes. Oh, yeah. To that.

Matt 48:05 Yeah. Stephanie, you can do it or or I can do it and I can just splice it in.

Stephanie 48:10 Leave it in. Um, go ahead, Matt.

Matt 48:12 K. Um, Ashley, Um, Ashley, if somebody is interested in, um, viewing some of the tools you've created, where can they find you?

Ashley 48:21 Yeah. Absolutely. Well, as I mentioned, we're on Amazon. If you search for worry for nothing, um, we have the discreet black journal, or you could go to forprogress.com, f 0 u r progress Com, and find our journals there.

Matt 48:36 Amazing. Great. Yeah. Good call, Jess. That's

Ashley 48:41 yeah. Thanks. That's I appreciate it.

Stephanie 48:45 Produce motivated but don't don't necessarily know what to do. So a lot of it's just listening to people in our own lives and starting to connect those dots of what challenges exist and then how do we solve these for people. So it's something that's near and dear to my heart, and, uh, hopefully, it helps someone too out there.

Matt 47:03 That's amazing.

Stephanie 47:04 Love that. Yeah. That is really is amazing. And I love that you even took that sort of your your research inclination through the process of development, and we're like, I'm gonna do this the right way and sort of have the conversations that need to be had to make sure that this has good, like, product market fit, if you will. So

Ashley 47:20 Yeah.

Stephanie 47:21 Really, really cool stuff. Thanks. Um, well, Ashley, this conversation with you today has been an absolute pleasure. I loved getting to learn about sort of your approach to how to, you know, how you spin up an insights org and really how you create that buy in for yourself. And I if I take anything away personally, I'm gonna start having listening sessions. I've been here for several years, but it's it's not too late to start. So

Ashley 47:43 Yes. Great. I'm I love to hear that. Do them often. For sure.

Stephanie 47:47 For having me. Thanks so

Matt 47:53 much.

Stephanie 47:59 Alright. Oh. Yes. Oh, yeah. To that.

Matt 48:05 Yeah. Stephanie, you can do it or or I can do it and I can just splice it in.

Stephanie 48:10 Leave it in. Um, go ahead, Matt.

Matt 48:12 K. Um, Ashley, Um, Ashley, if somebody is interested in, um, viewing some of the tools you've created, where can they find you?

Ashley 48:21 Yeah. Absolutely. Well, as I mentioned, we're on Amazon. If you search for worry for nothing, um, we have the discreet black journal, or you could go to forprogress.com, f 0 u r progress Com, and find our journals there.

Matt 48:36 Amazing. Great. Yeah. Good call, Jess. That's

Ashley 48:41 yeah. Thanks. That's I appreciate it.

Stephanie 48:45 Produce